Baldwin-Whitehall Falls Farther Down Local School Rankings

Michael Dobs April 7, 2012 at 02:33 am

I graduated from BHS in 2000 and my wife in 2001! It's not just the school that has gone down hill. Leland Point is fillled with more low income residents than ever. These students are not given the home support they deserve which does not help test scores. Prospect Park is filled with more ESL students than ever which does not help test scores. (Baldwin has the 2 highest ESL population in the state) and South Fayette is NOT the highest. And it's not very classy to refer to them as United Nations.
You can compair Baldwin to Upper St. Clair and Mt. Lebo all you want but your comparing apples to oranges. The home support is not here. I'm not arguing with you about your childs Algebra teacher... She might be the worst one ever for all I know. But your child has the home support to help. As long as you can do freshman Algebra (not a dig just a point... I would not pass Trig at this point of my life but flew through it years ago). There are bad teacher at all schools. I agree with you that major changes can and should be made. But you just can't compair apples to oranges. Remember 10 years ago BHS was filled with blue collar kids... Now the wife beater out numbers the blue collar.

Jean Smith April 7, 2012 at 03:57 am

Mike if you go up to Leland and up to Whitehall Place you will find that a lot of the ESL families are gone now. We shouldn't be teaching these students in a different language, we are an Americans and they should be made to learn English. If they want to be taught in their language then they need to be home schooled. Money that they can be spending on qualified teachers is being wasted on ELS students.
I graduated back in 1977 and how I was taught to do Algebra isn't how the students learn now & I got yelled at by his teacher for teaching him the way I knew to get the answer, but it isn't the way they learn. I now have to get on the computer and teach him from there. I shouldn't have to be teaching him the work, that is what were paying teachers for. The Pittsburgh Schools have more ESL and Special Ed students than Baldwin does and their schools have higher test scores. Are you going to compare them as apples and oranges? All schools get money from the state, federal gov and though our school taxes and they need to spend the money where it is needed in qualified teachers for our kids. Mt Lebo and St Claire is in a smaller sq miles than Baldwin is and they don't collect as much in taxes, but they have better teachers than we do. Upper St Clair and Mt Lebo spend their money on given students better educations than Baldwin does and we need to get new board, administrators, principals and teachers that can teach. This isn't apples and oranges either.

Jean Smith April 7, 2012 at 04:05 am

Philly School District has the highest ESL students ratio in the state and their schools are higher up in rankings too. Here is the ranking for all schools in the state.
http://www2.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/events/2012/school_guide/statewide-ranking-information.html?appSession=625175721501487&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=&cpipage=1&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

Michael Dobs April 7, 2012 at 12:20 pm

You just added another bad compairson. Mt. Lebo and USC collect more! That's a fact not an opinion! Their mills might not be as high but when a house is work 2x as much you get to collect more off a lower mill. Phili does not have a higher ESL ratio. I have been to Prospect Park and Leland Point, when is the last time you drove through both? They are not gone they are more prevalent than ever. And since when do the teachers teach them in their language? A teacher would have to speak like 10 diffrent languages. A statement like that makes me question if you have any clue of what goes on in our schools. These students a brought here, shown a faucet and taught that water comes out, shown a light switch and that I creates power. These student who what never peed in anything other that a hole in the ground are taking the same tests. Our ratio of them is huge. I applaud our teachers for dealing with them. When the 3 grader has to come to school for parent teacher conferences to be the translator.

Michael Dobs April 7, 2012 at 12:20 pm

We are getting some new administrators next year. Atleast two at this point. School board is another demon all together. I have heard the same complaints you have from teachers. They follow the state curriculum that they have to follow, they don't like it, they don't like teaching for a teat, but their hands are tied. If we paid our administration and had them sign contracts to stay for a while we would not have the turn over we have. Their is some dead weight teachers but not as many as u assume. I have been in our schools, I have talked to our teachers, students, and parents. I look foward to seeing your name on the School Board ballet this fall.

Rhombus Mom April 7, 2012 at 01:39 pm

I agree with Leah and ML. Statistics can be manipulated to represent situations any way you want. They are still a useful tool, however, for diagnosing areas in need of improvement. The fact that 5 of the 7 grades rose at least one spot this year, while the district's overall ranking across Western PA and the state dropped, implies that there are other districts who have shown more improvement than BW this year. It would be wise to find out how they did it and perhaps incorporate some of their methods in our schools.
It concerns me that there is a huge dip in achievement in the Middle School grades. 5th grade was ranked 38th, then 6th-8th dropped to around 70th, then back up to 33rd in 11th grade. That's the sort of analysis these types of statistics are meant to encourage. The district should be asking itself why achievement seems to be dropping during the Middle School years,

Brian Rampolla April 7, 2012 at 02:30 pm

The PBT rankings are best used to show long term trends, which like or not show declines since 2008 for the district, and most importantly in my opinion, for the 11th grade. Regardless of the reason, the important thing now is to reverse these trends, which cannot be done slowly but will require innovative new initiatives. The BW school board has clearly stated they will support any such initiatives, so the students, parents, and the entire community must put pressure on all district officials to get things moving. And with the increasing need for hi-tech skills, there would be no better way than to completely revamp the district science program to emphasize key areas of future job growth, such as advanced manufacturing, energy, and robotics. Local manufacturing is seeing a resurgence, with the main impediment being lack of skilled workers – why can’t these workers be BHS grads? Pitt and CMU have world class energy and robotics programs, – why can’t BHS be a feeder school for these universities not 10 miles away? I’m confident Dr. Lutz will take the lead in making this district a standout in these and other related areas. Test scores won’t matter as much if this happens. Let me add that none of these initiatives should be done at the expense at art, music, or related creative programs. If we've learned anything from people like Steve Jobs it should be clear that creativity in the arts and creativity in science and engineering are intimately related.

Truth hurts April 7, 2012 at 04:22 pm

While I agree with many of the comments, just for some fact checking. USC's budget is actually lower than BW, which is scary because they are light years ahead of us. The problem is management (read Administrators and School Board members), you have 9 people who basically work part time for this district on a volunteer basis, but they don't have the backbone to challenge administration and hold them accountable, that is what needs to happen. We are getting a change in administration, thankfully, but we need to rally the communities together and get a change from a board that prides itself more on community recognition and less on action to move this district forward.

Brian Rampolla April 7, 2012 at 05:19 pm

Let's get something straight. Nobody is manipulating these numbers to say something other than what they say. There's no grand conspiracy at the PBT to make the BW district look better or worse than it is. The issue is how the data are interpreted and what, if anything, is done based on the data, which will be, I hope, the subject of an up front, honest, no name calling, non acrimonious debate here on the Patch and especially at upcoming board meetings. This situation also presents the perfect opportunity for Dr. Lutz as the new superintendent and Mr. Scmotzer as the board president to set up some kind of citizen committee to provide input, and support, to the district on this critical issue.

Michael Dobs April 7, 2012 at 07:20 pm

I totally agree with Truth Hurts.....why are we light years behind USC... Why do we have turnover in administration that we have.... This time it's for the better! Why not go out and offer a USC, Mt. Lebo, or a Hampton Adminstraitor 10% more than they are making now to make a 5-10 year commitment to our schools... Let's put money into that instead of a DVD.

me April 7, 2012 at 10:32 pm

Jean is obviously an idiot because the Algebra teacher can't affect 8 classes of students. A teacher only has 5-6 classes. Maybe you should take a math class! :)

Jean Smith April 7, 2012 at 11:00 pm

Yes the city of Pittsburgh Schools have over 30,000 students and as someone stated before me that BWS has more students as ESL than any other school district around with is not the case, the City of Pittsburgh has more ESL students than BWS. In fact all schools in Allegheny County have student that are ESL, not just Baldwin.
Maybe our school board should go over to USC, Mt Lebo, North Allegheny, Hampton and South Fayette and pick their brains on how to bring out on how to make improvement at our school, find out how they teach and to make Balwin/Whitehalls School District a better place for our student to learn, instead of wasting money on a Video showing how great the community is. I love living in this area, but the school district has been going downhill since my older son's graduated from Baldwin and the good teachers that we had back then retired. I am hoping that they pass the school vouchers so I can use it to send my child to a private school so they get a better education than what they are getting now at BWS.

Jean Smith April 7, 2012 at 11:06 pm

IDK why don't you call Michael Dobs an idiot too because he states that "But you just can't compair apples to oranges. Remember 10 years ago BHS was filled with blue collar kids... Now the wife beater out numbers the blue collar."
It's funny but I don't know one wife beater that lives in the BWS District but I do know a ton of White and Blue Collar Workers here.

Michael Dobs April 8, 2012 at 01:35 am

Really Jean.... Wife beater... As in the style of shirt... Not an abuser... Come-on! ... And you can take your voucher to another state with Gov. "take money from a group I'm investigating"

Jon Wain April 8, 2012 at 11:56 am

I read all these comments and agree with some.The point here is what are we going to do to get better rankings.The school board does not hear us from this page.They would if we show up in mamouth numbers at there meetings.To often many things are not challenged that should be.This situation is a list topper.

bd April 8, 2012 at 02:31 pm

None of this should be surprising. Educational results for this school district have been medicre for years. It is what happens when the school board and the district administration are primaritly interested in building facilities sized for a school population that will never exist instead of putting money into educational programs. Using ESL is an excuse. The root cause of this district's problem is in the failure of the school district leadership : the superintendent and school board. We are second to none in our sports facilities. Isn't that all that matters for Yunzers?

me April 9, 2012 at 12:48 pm

I first should apologize to Jean. Name-calling is not appropriate. However, your misinformed view of the schools and opinion of teachers is also inappropriate and that is one of the reasons this district is going downhill. We need a higher standard - for students. When Korchnak proposed raising the bar and having students have a "c" to participate in an activity, the school board isn't ready to commit. Send a message to students that they are accountable.
Special education is a huge drain on the public school system and ESL support services are as well. To suggest otherwise is unrealistic, but what is more alarming is the socio-economic status of the district. Look at the increase in students on free and reduced lunch and you will understand the problems the school system face. The type of families moving in are different.

Janet April 9, 2012 at 07:14 pm

IDK, what exactly as you trying to say with your comment "Look at the increase in students on free and reduced lunch and you will understand the problems the school system face"? I have lived in BW for 20 years. I have a child who attends the high school, is in National Honor Society, and yes is on the free/reduced lunch program. My child has not always been on this program, but has been on it for several years now. You do not know what unforeseen circumstances anyone has had. Just because a student receives a free/reduced lunch does not make them less intelligent or mean they come from parents who don't care. Your mentality must be small to think that makes a family so different from yours

Jean Smith April 9, 2012 at 11:43 pm

Janet I totally agree with you there, there are different reasons that kids go on free/reduced lunches. When my older son's were students at BWS, they received free lunches for about 6 months because I got hurt on a job and was fighting to get workman comp. People are laid off and their unemployment has ran out and there are not high paying jobs left around especially if your over the age of 40-45.The county is paying for the free/reduced lunches and none of the money is being taken away from what the school gets to teach our students. Also for every child that has an IEP, the also get money from the county to help pay for the extra teachers needed to teach these student. So this money isn't coming out of our taxes, money from the state or federal government. Now it is different with the ESL, that money is being taken out of this money from our taxes, state and federal money.
As for holding the kids accountable for playing sports they should all have over a C average in all their classes. If it drops blow a C then they shouldn't be playing sports till their grades are up. Other schools hold their kids accountable for their grades and Baldwin should do the same. Baldwin needs to clean their act up and maybe go talk to the top schools in Allegheny County and maybe find out how they are teaching the student and to learn from them.

me April 10, 2012 at 11:53 am

@janet - congratulations, but you are the exception. How can a kid worry about a pssa test when they work 8 hours after school to get help support their family? I know a lot of kids who did that when I went to school with them. School work and test scores were not their priority because of unforeseen circumstances and that is understandable. More families are faced with this because of economics and even broken families. I don't think it is small-minded to consider all the variables that affect children. Some kids are resilient, but most are not.

Margaret French April 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm

This article has me so fired up that I have to comment. The latest IN magazine (Spring 2012) that is mailed to the borough residents has the Building Committee standing all proud because Baldwin High School wins the Architecture Award yet we dropped even lower in our rankings. This is what we pay all these taxes for and yet the students can't read or write properly or even speak English correctly? I think the whole Baldwin Whitehall School Board needs to have a major overhaul. Vote them all out. I'd even be willing to bet that Joe Lucas (comment above) and I would get more votes. I am so thankful my children grauated before it really started to go downhill more. Get those rankings raised or else lower the taxes. I didn't pay taxes to win an architecture award!

NB April 10, 2012 at 03:03 pm

Maybe the middle schoolers need to have their tests scores represent more to each child than to the school over all. The 11th graders' scores are on their permanent records. Wonder if the B-W children really really try their best? How does Upper St. Clair motive their students to do their best on the test?

Elaina April 16, 2012 at 11:33 am

@Jean: Who is this algebra permanent sub? I'm in the school and there isn't one.

Robert Edward Healy, III (Editor) April 16, 2012 at 01:51 pm

Folks, we will not be naming any names here. We are already way too close to making this personal.
Thank you for understanding.

Elaina April 16, 2012 at 02:42 pm

Sorry Robert, I was just trying to figure this out. I'm in the school right now, and there isn't a sub for any algebra classes if she is referring to the high school.

Robert Edward Healy, III (Editor) April 16, 2012 at 03:57 pm

Thanks for taking part in the conversation and, again, for understanding.

Elaina April 17, 2012 at 11:15 am

@Jean,
Thanks! I'm on the other side of the high school. I was getting this sub mixed up with another one that I know in the school. (a math sub not subbing math) I was not aware that there was a sub for her, and right there it was! Thanks for clarifying for me. I don't know this person so I can not say anything on their behalf. I would like to let it be known that the math faculty I am familiar with are well-experienced and knowledgeable. I hope everything with your situation gets resolved soon!

Robert Edward Healy, III (Editor) April 17, 2012 at 02:10 pm

Had to delete that specific reference to someone. Sorry, folks.

Jean Smith April 20, 2012 at 09:02 pm

ML did you look at the dates on the article, they were from the Wednesday, October 17, 2001 for article Baldwin-Whitehall staff strives to integrate 200 refugee students and make their schools 'islands of tolerance and the other one is from
Monday, October 12, 2009 At School: Here's how to say 'learn' in Nepali. Also Whitehall put a stop to Catholic Charities bring all these refuges to Whitehall Place and they are not being spread out all over Allegheny County, Washington County, etc. Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/09285/1004867-298.stm#ixzz1scHjFa12

Jean Smith April 26, 2012 at 08:33 pm

ML, just face it, Baldwin is on a downward spiral and since your the expert on everything, lets see you go run the school board, district. Hire teachers that can be held accountable.