Robert, did the council provide a copy of the proposed burning ordinance to you? Are you permitted to post a copy of it to this website? I don't see it posted on the borough's website. Sure, people can physically trudge over and inspect the draft ordinance, but how much easier it would be if you OR THE BOROUGH could simply make it easy for the public by posting it online. So mark it up as "DRAFT" and let the public inspect it easily. What's the problem? Wouldn't want to think elected officials intentionally want to limit access to the public's business, but, hey... Actually getting public input might interfere with the ease of governance or something.

nofire,

I don't believe that the proposed ordinance will be posted online. If you contact the borough, however, you should be able to get a copy.

Margaret, so will I be with the fire pit I had installed behind the pool. I did go to Whitehall before I even built it and asked about it and had the plans with me. Nofire pitts is probably ranting and raving about this.

She should of been at the meeting.

I do know this: According to the proposed ordinance, "No persons shall allow or maintain a fire which creates excessive smoke, excessive odor or malodorous emissions. Smoke and odors shall be considered excessive if perceptible beyond the property line of the source of the fire."

Oh yeah, thanks. I did notice that in the Hampton ordinance that you linked to. I would be very interested in learning how the enforcement of that is going in Hampton. ...if at all. Hopefully Whitehall will duplicate that language anyway. Perception of the odor or getting sick from the emissions, as some of us do, does not necessarily make it easy for an officer to locate the source of said emissions. Nonetheless, such language is at least something to begin with.

Seriously, THIS really is excellent: "Smoke and odors shall be considered excessive if perceptible beyond the property line of the source of the fire." Now, once I perceive it while standing on my own property or in my own house, and I complain about it to officials, I want to know how they'll proceed. By definition the law has been broken. SO PLEASE HELP ME, KIND OFFICER! Before this ordinance is enacted officials should have an enforcement plan.

I had a fireman tell me that if he were to tell the burner up the street to put out their fire it would more than likely create even more smoke upon extinguishing. Gee, THAT helps my sick headache.

Not allowing the filthy burning and air pollution in the first place just makes so much more sense. For a while officers would have to penalize all such burners - with warnings then fines, I suppose. Then people would get the message and quit doing it.

nofire pitts - guess your going to have to move out to the country and live in a glass house then. There is more toxin coming from Steel Plants, Electric Generator Plants then from a fire pit. Are you protesting that they shut them down also.

cc, they may have done that local study at CMU
http://burningissues.org/car-www/science/Pittsburghwoodsmoke.html
just to argue against you:

"Wood burning (aqua section) creates more fine particulate than the coal power plant and trucks combined. The report shows that wood smoke, as a source of fine particulate, is equal to any of the other sources in the area.

Note that it is a campus area where one would not expect a local source of wood smoke."

------

As for me moving out to the country, as you mock me, do you think I didn't consider that? The problem there is much worse nowadays, with outdoor wood boilers and more neighbors using wood as a primary heat source in winter. Without local government's help there is no refuge.

Here is a rare article where the lung-diseased woman's neighbors actually gave a damn. Please note:
"the particles in the wood smoke are so small that they get into the deep parts of the lung," Stroebel said. "And then [those particles] can actually get into the blood stream and then enter systemic circulation." :
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/11/12/wood_burning_stove_dangers

Ha ha ha!

Haha, as so many people have said to me, "No comment."

Ha.

Good one cc. nofire pits can't ride a bike or walk because fumes from the passing cars will make him/her sick. Not much difference than firepits. We should make every Saturday night a regular night to start up our fire pits in honor of nofire pits. LOL

At least nofirepits states his/her opinion and asks questions on topic, rather than sling playground taunts like a couple of immature brats.
I don't agree with nofire, but I do respect his/her posting; it's opinion, and everyone has one, as they say.

I wish I knew where nofire pits lives. For all I know it could be this joker next door to me who complains about the fire pits. Both of them are real fruitcakes. But she drives her old car through the stop sign every day.. I forgot, she is above the law. She has to leave in a hurry every morning because she takes a bag of garbage and throws it away somewhere. She doesn't want garbage at her house. I am going to have to follow her some morning. I could tell you all stories about her. She is so screwed up it is funny.

Margaret you don't know how many times that my neighbor calls also on our fire pits (neighbors and I), that we have an inferno going. But when Whitehall Officers show up there isn't one. They should start giving her fines for her calling and wasting their time in coming out to our homes.

I plan on going to the next meeting and bringing that up, about people that call and make false accusations that they should be fined. Lucky the officers when they show up will always accept hot choccie, coffee and something to eat when they waste there time coming out

Jack, we have had the police show up because we burn in the fire place in our home, We don't have inferno's in the house either but she just loves to call the Police on everyone in the neighborhood, yet what she does is ok, like speeds up and down our street so that no one can see her coming or going.

She also is my next door neighbor and wants me to share with her what I grow in my garden as she won't plant her own. My kid handed her rotten tomatoes this past summer when she told my daughter how fresh grown tomatoes would go great in her salad.

Bob, they just need something in there now about people filing false reports.

How about people posting false accusations on patch?

I'll do my best there, NE.

You're a good man, Bob.
:-)
NED

Margaret would love to stop by and I think I know where you live. If one day you see a Hyundai Electra show up in your driveway its me.

Keep watching for a Hyundai "Electra", you'll be waiting a LOOOONG time, haha!

NE12Ukid- she will show up. We will toast some marshmallows in your honor. ha ha

Please take a photo of this "Electra" for everyone to see this unique one of a kind vehicle.

What are you talking about?

Margaret no clue what clueless ne12ukid is talking about. Our whole neighborhood gets along except for the one that calls the police on everyone. She even got binoculars that she looks out her front window or door with so she can see what the neighbors are doing.

cc-nowhere to reply except here. Binoculars. LOL Mine got a peephole put in her garage door to watch out. They also drive down to the dead end to turn around before turning into their driveway. That kills 2 birds with one stone. They get the stuff off their tires if they had to drive through something on the way home and also get to neb around the street to see who to call the boro on. And btw, when we were on friendly terms she told me they drive down the street to get the dust off the tires. That is not an assumption on my part. If there is salt on the road she stands with a broom at the curb waiting for her husband coming home from work and cleans his tires off before he can pull in the driveway. All of the neighbors around here can't stand here since she causes trouble for all of us.

Margaret, I think it's pretty clear.

Margaret, I can't see how that would be a problem unless the grill was on.

then so is the gas in your car.

Glad you finally got the joke, Margaret.
Maybe she's coming with Carmen....

Margaret - ne12ukid can't read typonese. It harasses everyone on the Patch with it's many names and personalities. Just to clarify it for the psycho I have a Hyundai Elentra.

jalew - "@NEUKid...since you have elected yourself as the self appointed unofficial moderator of this thread and every other one on the patch....always trying to control others word choice and intentions and attitudes"

jalew got this right on another post about ne12ukid and its many personalities that it post under. It has elected itself the sheriff of the patch always pointing out errors that others make. To bad it doesn't have a real life, family and friends around. I can picture her neighbors now running when they see it outside her home. Then again it is probably the one reporting her neighbors fire pits, and everything else in the neighborhood to the local police. Lonely people like ne12ukid are just nasty people in life

cc, your continued lies and harrassment are most inappropriate. Get a sense of humor, and face it---YOU just made another MISTAKE.
Admit the truth and shame the devil, come on---it's nowhere near as bad as the lies you repeat about me, and clearly no where near as bad as the one about the Baldwin police not responding when you say you called them about a drug deal in another municipality.
Despite your high opinion of yourself, how you describe yourself as the perfect mother, sober gun totin' perfect neighbor, etc etc,
you, like me and anyone else, can and DOES make mistakes. This one, for a change, was funny.

BTW, I think your new 'buddy's name was jaylew. LOL

That's the point, Margaret, when you make an error, you correct it or if it is pointed out as funny or unusual or even confusing, you admit you are human and made an error and move on. Same as I have done.
Of course I've never seen either of us claim to be perfect, we're human is all.
OTOH, cc can't do that, as evidenced by her repeated insistence about the "Brownsville up by Brentwood" incident, and her continued lying harassment of me, insisting that every new or repeat poster with whom she disagrees is me using some other name here.
I corrected her mistake, I laughed when it was compounded, and I several times nicely ASKED her to STOP the nonsense. Since she refuses and continues the harassment, I may now just fight fire with fire.
I'm NED, just NED, always have been, and most likely will remain.
When it comes to pointing fingers and calling names, cc does make me laugh because anything she dreams up to accuse me or anyone else about, is something she has done herself. A real case of pot/kettle/black.
She imagines some horribly sad life for me, when in reality she is adding laughter to most any day I view the PATCH.
Have a great afternoon, Margaret French, and no I am not your NEIGHBOR, as I don't live in Whitehall. It's just too darn classy, hahaha!! (joke, smile now!!)

ne12ukid, is a joke with all the names and different personalities that it post on the Patch, appointed itself sheriff of he patch. Isn't worth answering half the time as it is a joke. Can see all of its neighbors running when it is outside, as they don't want to be near a nutcase.

Sorry for your neighbor but your neighbor didn't have a heart attack from that smoke. There had to be other contributing factors. Also, I caught onto your name... stupid.

I agree that the wood smoke can irritate anyone with an underlying condition. My last pregnancy I had chronic Bronchitis and someone a street away from me was using their firepit during the day. It was horrible. I couldn't breath and had to use an inhaler everytime they used it. I enjoy using the occasional firepit with friends and family but it's only right that if you know your neighbor is sick or elderly that you should consider their health over your fun. That is just my opinion.

Ms. French based on your previous comments I seriously doubt you're sorry for my neighbor having a heart attack as--for 1--she's not up to your beauty standards having "short frizzy" hair. By the way--my hair is long and frizzy--as is my beautiful daughters--and--oh yes, my husband is balding! In terms of my next door neighbor having a heart attack brought on by the toxic smoke emitted into her home from another neighbor's fire-pit--there were other contributing factors--which I stated! It's in the post--read it again! As I stated--she is elderly and has COPD--which as I also stated, per the EPA--"Even limited exposure can be harmful…"--"particularly to the health of children, the elderly, and those with chronic conditions." Bingo!! Two out of 3 of "those contributing factors" mentioned by the EPA--"elderly" and "chronic conditions." In terms of my screen name not being up to your intelligence standard--and being-- "stupid"--coming from you I take that as a compliment. Airin is actually a variation on my birth name Erin--and I have a hyphenated last name. The D is representative of my maiden name--and the Poisson is French for Fish--my husband had a great grandmother Americanize their French name. The air we breathe is no less important than the water we drink. The ultrafine particles that infiltrate our homes and lungs from wood smoke--are not filtered by shutting doors and windows. Wood smoke is the new 2nd hand smoke--that the general public lacks awareness of.

Airin D-Poisson - Do you go and look for articles on the web about Fire Pits and then post this. I just read these same words your posting here about the Medical Waste Plant down in W VA. If you live in NH, how did you even come across an article about fire pits in Whitehall PA in a small online news as the Patch. Seems that Non FirePitts has had a name change.

Jon we also have them coming from Baldwin Borough, they are now being moved into the Residency of South Hills aka Green Getto's as Catholic Charities is paying the full rent for hem over there.

I wouldn't worry about it, Airin.
This is just cc's MO, she TRIES to discredit anything anyone else says, and then when she's finally out of false accusations about the words, she accuses you of being someone else. She's falsely accused me of being at least a dozen different names, as she cannot accept that it's just a dozen different people who happen to disagree with her on one subject or another.
You had one quote in your post, it was correctly quoted and attributed (EPA) and more than likely that same quote has appeared in other articles.
Don't let cc represent our BaldwinWhitehall Patch, Airin, good to see your opinions shared here with a few other nice posters.

Thank you NE12Ukid--I really appreciate you taking the time to comment and respond in such a friendly and kind manner! --And by the way I DO appreciate your humor--it's witty and light hearted--but more importantly it's not malicious. Enough said!--I wouldn't want anyone thinking I'm talking to myself or would that be you--no, that would be nofire pitts! JUST KIDDING! Sorry, I couldn't resist!--Cheers!

Thank you, Airin. I have found that with certain posters, humor is the best response, even if they have no sense of humor. The other alternative is to ignore them, but when cc directly lies about ME, I will rebut.

ne12ukid = loser who makes names up so that it can pat itself on back. the self appointed sheriff of the patch. loser

LMLAO!
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

Margaret--Your one word comment of--"stupid"--directed at my screen name was rude and offensive--plain and simple. Whether you are familiar or not with the various spellings/variations of my name--or you perceive my screen name to have a dual meaning or not--does not change that. I also get that you dislike your neighbor-- however to make such superficially critical remarks regarding her appearance reflects more poorly on you than it does on her. Whether you are aware of that--or even care--I don't know. --But darned if you didn't just go and do it again with your afro remark!!--"It is different when you purposely get a perm and make it look like an afro." Meaning what? Frizzy, curly hair is ok--as long as it doesn't look like an afro! Maybe she likes afros--who cares--REALLY!! Anyway--next topic--I agree with you regarding someone smoking for years and being accountable in terms of how this can then impact their health. That being said I will cut some slack to older generations not having the full disclosure and benefit of what we now know in terms of the addictive, harmful and deadly health effects of smoking. This however has nothing to do with the fact that we all have the legal right to breathe reasonably pure air on our property and in our homes--whether you are old, young, sick or healthy. Your choice to burn wood that emits toxic smoke and particulate matter does not trump that right--ever!

Airin, when you drive your car you are polluting the air for others, when you use your furnace, dryer you are doing the same thing. When you toss your trash out it is going to dumps that cause pollution. When you use electric in your house your a contributing factor to electric plants polluting our air.

When you use sprays your polluting our air, when you use chemicals in your yard your polluting our air.

I assume you don't drive a car, use gas to heat your home, cook, don't have electric in your house. Don't depend on public transportation because that pollutes our air.

...and so you make fun of her and write about here on PaTch instead of being neighborly and offering the poor woman some kindness. You admit her family is gone and so she is probably very lonely. For such a "perfect" person as you have many times gone to great detail to describe yourself, you'd think you could offer a kind word to this poor soul, or at the very least, STOP slamming her on Patch. We've heard all these stories time and again.

Her family don't come to see her any more as she has alienated herself from her family. My children still talk to them as they grew up together. How do you want me to be neighborly to her when she calls the cops on you and all the other neighbors. She didn't want kids riding their bikes, playing out in the street in front of her yard as a ball might roll on her property and kids might run on her grass. Even her ex husband thinks she is a wack job.

ne12ukid, more of what your neighbors probably think of you.

Actually I too have a neighbor who does strange things, I figure she has some mental problems. So I am extra nice to her when I see her.
Being nasty to her or writing details about what she does on the Patch isn't going to help her or change her. Maybe a smile and a few kind words will at least give her a bit of happiness.
But you two just go ahead and keep doing it your way, let us know if it helps you in some way.

All things considered I am extremely nice to cc here compared to the lies she posts.
Are you saying that cc has mental illness and is all alone and needs a kind word like my neighbor?
I WILL practice just what I told you I do here in my neighborhood, and you of course go ahead and do it your way. It's not a contest, like I said, let us know if it helps you in some way.

ne12ukid your the one with mental problems not I. I have friends, family and a business that I run. Something you will never accomplish in the small world you live in.

Wrong on two counts:
I also have family, friends, and have owned two businesses as well as doing consulting.
Plus, do not make false accusations, cc. I did NOT say you have mental problems, it was Margaret who wanted me to treat you the way I treat my neighbor who does have such problems. Don't start reposting your delusions or confusions again, cc. Stick to repeating the stories about the old man with Parkinson's and the neighbor lady you bash who wants some tomatoes from your garden. Those are probably your best efforts, since the drug deals on Brownsvile story was totally debunked by several here. Now you have a REAL nice day, I have an early appointment, and then my DD is taking me out to lunch, can't give you any more of my valuable time just now.

then you've missed a lot of posts, Margaret.
That's OK, you have a real nice day.

Margaret - ne12ukid has chased many people away from the Patch with her being the self appointed sheriff on here. Her telling others how they are suppose to think and how wrong they are. ne12ukid isn't nice to anyone as you can see by its writing.

You have a REAL nice day, too, cc.

Good thing you don't live near a campground. Multiple fires burning every night in summer.