Making legal decisions is what the PA Supreme Court does.

Yep. Pass the buck... That way their rich owners and their republican cohorts won't be angry at them for having done what's right and simply thrown out that expensive and utterly useless law whose only purpose is to try to get Pennsylvania's electoral votes for the dual twits, Romney and Ryan. Legal decisions? How about ethical, realistic, and truthful ones?

Where do you live? I'd like to search your house, car, and person. I mean, it's OK, certainly you've got nothing to hide, right?

no one is searching your house or your car , photo ID one vote stop complaining.

Right on the money Bill.

To proud American:

It's called the false dilemma fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

"Either you have nothing to hide or you're guilty."

Sorry, there I go expecting people to be educated...

Since gasman has wikipedia he thinks he is the only educated peson in this debate. Sorry doesn't take a genius to understand one vote by one person = fair election. I have my voter ID and ready to vote and if I see someone who needs help getting the required ID will do everything in my power to help them get the ID they need instead of complaining about needing an ID.

Bill - We're going to need you to apply for the right to speak your mind. Fill out the appropriate forms and you'll receive your ID that will allow you to speak freely in public.
No one can deny your right to speak freely, you just need to be fully vetted and authorized. Until then, you'll have to keep quiet.

No one is taking away your right to freely express yourself, we're just protecting the system.

Bill I agree you have to show Photo ID every where else and these people have it for that but don't have it to vote. Give me a break. They won't be paid to vote in 10 different from the Democrats

yes any one can add anything to wikipedia. And teens have a blast changing things on there

Agree Bill - if you need an ID to ride in a plane - why be offended to proudly show that you are an American registering your vote?

I just don't understand those without IDs....I don't understand how someone can go through life never needing to show an ID for anything.

And you've never had to show your ID in order to vote.
Why change that?
Why choose to place an impediment between you and your rights?

Mike,
How would you feel if you went to the polls to vote and find out someone else used your name and vote for you?

Ed M - How would you feel if Godzilla stepped on your house?

Because unless you can cite a specific instance of someone using your name to vote happening you're just spouting a fantasy.

In other posts folks are bemoaning the fact that only a small percentage of the country show up to vote. Now, they're saying that legions of ne'er-do-wells are sneaking in to vote.

I've spent time at my polling station, no one is sneaking in to vote. Sadly, hardly anyone even shows up to vote.

I have a specific instance Mike. A friend of mine went to vote. She saw her mother's name checked off as having voted on the list above her name. The only problem is, her mother died 10 yrs ago. She told the poll worker who just shrugged their shoulders. You don't find fraud if you don't look for it, or take steps when nformed.

If Godzilla stepped on my house I would be just as upset to find out someone voted using my name. No fantasy Mike. Without having to prove who you are, anyone can vote as you.

So how would you feel if you went to vote and found out someone voted using your name and you can't exercise you right to vote?

If you don't make enough to buy a plane ticket, or to buy a car, or open a checking acount, you really have no need for a photo ID. Someone needs to explain to me what the urgency is in passing this law (besides the obvious need to thwart the re-election of President Obama). What's wrong with gradually easing into this new law by providing people the time and resources needed to work through the bureaucracy to get a photo ID?

It's a far-reaching influence, indeed. So far-reaching that it reached right into the minds of the *Republican* lawmakers who came up with the bill, at least one of whom admitted that the bill was created to help Romney win PA. Is there no end to Obama's trickiness?

Obama wasn't elected by illegal votes. So where do you get such 'facts' from? Off the top of your head?

gasman this bill has been in place 10 years ago in other states. I'm glad Pennsylvania has it and wish all states had it. I hope they have to count every vote in states by hand after the election and they take out all the dead people, people that don't really exist out of all the votes for obama.

DSA there is 36 states that you have to show PHOTO ID TO VOTE, some in place for over 10 years now. so not sure where your getting your info. There is voters fraud. That was why it was put into place in some states for PHOTO ID.

PEOPLE HAVE 8 MONTHS TO GET ID, IF THEY WAIT TILL THE LAST MINUTE AND CAN'T GET IT IS THEIR FAULT NO ONE ELSE

Kathleen, any implementation is "right before an election." It makes no difference what kind of election. Elections are held regularly, and any new law regarding voter requirements will always be "right before an election."

To be clear, the law was put into place many months ago. So, the "right before an election" is a bogus argument.

700,000 NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE IS HOG WASH, THEY HAVE HAD SINCE FEBRUARY TO GET ID.

In the last presidential election, 69% of the registered voters voted. This 700,000 people you mention, Kathleen, is roughly 8% of the registered voters. What we don't know is this 8% part of the ones who do actually vote.

Romney is the one that doesn't want a fair election.!.!.! What fantasy land are you from? It’s the Liberals that don't want this law passed so they can cheat! Why would you not have to prove who you are to vote there is plenty of time to get and ID. PITT and Kain Hospital said they would help provide free IDs to people so they could vote. This law should have been in place 10 years ago and we should push it through NOW!!!!!

Impeding the freedom to vote, in any small way, is the opposite of democracy in action. That has been proven multiple times throughout the history of our Republic.

Rules come with freedom, Mike. No one is being banned from voting.

Apples and oranges. Voting has nothing to do with those other issues you state. Voting is a guaranteed right and should not be restricted in any way.

since when is showing an ID a restriction? it is not stopping you from voting. We are a nation of laws and if the law states we need a voter ID the so be it.

I love how it is always apples and oranges to mike, yet everyone else beside him has to show ID. No one is restricting your right to vote, if you go to the polling place without the proper ID you can get a provisional papers and vote that way.

If there were ID required for lottery tickets, the elderly would have no problem having obtaining ID!

John in this day and age where are you finding these people . I had to have a photo ID to get blood work at a doctors office. File papers at the courthouse recently,photo ID. Want to make a bet to get into the DNC and RNC conventions you needed a photo ID. Instead of people complaining help these people that so many of you know get the photo id they need, take them to the DMV and help them fill out the forms.

"Yes" to the need of photo ID to gain entrance to DNC and RNC. You win the bet, proud ....

same with bingo as lottery, they would have if it was required. If you win big money on the Lottery you Need a valid Photo ID

Photo ID is free. Just go to the local DMV. Easy.

Leo, haven't you noticed it costs bucks to have a car, or get a taxi? And what if you're elderly and poor and can't afford either...and the DMV office is miles away. Then what? Are you going to walk? Get real. The reason the stupid republicans passed this law, as that corrupt clot, Turzai said, was to prevent people who would not vote for the dual twits, Romney and Ryan from voting for President Obama and Democrats. The Voter ID law is, pure and simply, another piece of republican corruption made into the law of the land (or at least that's what they're attempting to do).

So basically Ralph, you are admitting that the majority of voters who don't have an ID are democrats. Why is that? Are you saying that elderly republicans have ID's and elderly democrats don't? Give me a break. The real reason this strikes a nerve is because it will cut down on the people who shouldn't be voting. That is why it scares the Dems. And don't bring up the poor. Somehow the poor always seem to have a smartphone for everyone in the family, something I can't afford, yet they can't manage to get a photo ID.

The elderly get free bus trips (PA LOTTERY PAYS FOR IT) and they get ACCESS also so can go to anywhere for free, and there is a DMV downtown. The poor has no problem going to the store and spending their foodstamps, and using their access cards to get cash off them, so they should have no problem getting to the dmv.

cc - Wow! That's an insightful comment you made regarding the elderly and the poor.
Any other groups of folks you want to throw in there?

Ralph, you wrote "Leo, haven't you noticed it costs bucks to have a car, or get a taxi? And what if you're elderly and poor and can't afford either...and the DMV office is miles away. Then what? Are you going to walk? Get real."....if it such a hardship for them to get to the DMV how are they going to get to the polls and vote?

Donna, how many of the people in the urban and rural communities you speak voted since they registered to vote? If you live in PA you can get a FREE voter ID from PENNDOT. You may complain that people can't vote without an id but if they really WANT something they will find a way to get their id from the state. If you get welfare checks you have to have id. What's the problem?

Where are all of these libraries forcing people to show Photo ID to check out a library book? It's never happened to me.

Geez, minorities and women, show some gratitude that you can even vote! (Sarcasm.)

Also note, Bill, being smart has nothing to do with being allowed to vote -- that's why you and I both get the same number of votes.

Wow Bill. Minorities and women? Idiots? Really?

Mike I had to show photo ID to get a library card at Carnegie Library so that I could borrow EBooks for my ereader. When you apply for a library card they make you show photo id.

I got my Mt. Lebanon Public Library card when I was 10. I did not have a Photo ID at the time and am still checking out books on that same account.

Mike, that was a different era back when you were 10 till now. I was early for class and wanted to get a ebook and had to set up a library card at Carnegie Library with a photo ID and credit card in case I didn't bring the book back. No big deal giving them both cards. I did return the book I borrowed a few days before it was due, but now can just go online to the library and borrow books for the ereader. Don't return books back late, not like the nickle a day they charged when you were 10.

But Bill, Canada is full of... S-- S-- S-- Socialists!

Boy, I wish you were poor. Maybe you'd wake up! You might actually discover your stupidity and lack of accurate information. You must listen to Rush Limbaugh or think he and the other right wing propagandists who spout such nonsense are the new messiahs. Sheesh!

And we were told by the Occupy crowd and their cohorts that conservatives wished to keep citizens poor and stupid. Thank you Ralphy for dispelling that myth.

NE12Ukid
8:03 pm on Tuesday, September 18, 2012

so, Bill, you are saying that unless PA voters show one of the restrictive list of acceptable ID to vote, it's not an honest election? So both times Bush was elected it was not an honest election?

The due diligence of the Commonwelath Court involved reading their marching orders straight from the state G.O.P.

Eileen, how much lead time would you suggest? The law was put into place several months ago. If the lead time is six months, there will be those who claim "not enough time." If the lead time was ten months, "not enough time." If the lead time is 14 months, "not enough time." There will always those who are unable to manage themselves very well, and they will "not have enough time."

All this discussion should be a wake up call for EVERYBODY to get their papers in order, no matter their situation, no matter their age, status, or other. The voter ID law is only one of many situations where having proper documentation is the wise thing.

According to the Supremes on Page 6, Graf 2: "Overall, we are confronted with an ambitious effort on the part of the General Assembly to bring the new identification procedure into effect within a relatively short time frame and an implementation process which has by no means been seamless in light of the serious operational constraints faced by the executive branch."

"Get their papers in order"

Willkommen in den Vereinigten Staaten, bitte Papieren!

Tom, I understand your situation because I had a similar one. My son was registered to vote here, but moved to another state. Every time I went to vote and sign the register, his name was there, right above mine. I could have easily returned at a later time, signed on his line, and voted a second time. His name was there for at least 10 years, maybe even more. Clearly, the opportunities like this get weeded out with an ID.

I don't know the law regarding removal on one's name from the voter registration when moving. Maybe he was remiss in lack of notification. Why it was eventually removed, I don't know. It could be that he had not voted in many years, so by decree, the names are removed.

Besides you even need Proper ID to go to the doctor’s office.

I never do.
In fact saw a doctor today and did not have to show any ID.

My mother has been trying to get my dads name removed for 14 years and it was still on the list the last election.

Tom I have worked the election board in my town for a number of years. If you had tried to vote in your dad's place we would NOT have let that happen. Take my word for it!

Erin you need valid Photo ID to get a Student ID card at colleges. I registered to take night courses and had to show a valid Photo ID to get a Student ID card. So these students should have no problem voting. When my daughter in law was a student at VA Tech, she had to mail in her vote since she wasn't living in her home state in November and had classes so she wasn't able to drive up to Pennsylvania to vote in time.

How many people don't have a photo ID? How many people don't have a social security card? You have to have a social security card to get a job. Everybody has a social security card!

To get a State Photo ID is a pretty simple process unless if you have to go get a new birth certificate and/or Social Security Card. However, sometimes it isn't easy (I understand that I am contradicting myself here). Some people may not have a way to get to the place needed to be able to obtain and pay for the ID as well.

That's why three Republican justices and one Democratic justice voted to push it back to the lower court to reconsider its previous ruling?

Several observations to the above posts;
1 I am a registered republican and I still think this is not enough time for everyone to comply. I personally think that a minimum of one year would be acceptable.
2 I object to the assumption that all elderly are poor and/or democrats.
3 We should all consider it our civic duty to report any incorrect information. If we know that someone is deceased or moved from the voting district we should report that to the officials running the polling center.

Eileen, please correct me if I am wrong. But, I think you are saying that if you ship a package at the UPS store, you believe that the time delay for doing the shipping should be up to one year. Or, if you wish to open a bank account, you should have up to one year to do the ID part to open the account. I could go on with all the other places needed for ID. In effect you are saying that any of these other actions should be delayed up to one year for the purpose of getting an ID. Am I right?

As far as notifying poll workers about somebody being deceased, or moving away, you have made the case FOR having an ID. I could tell the poll workers that Joe Smith (nothing against Mr Smith) has died, and he should be taken off the register -- all without proper authority. Or, I could tell the poll worker that Sally Jones (nothing against Ms. Jones) should be taken off because she moved away. Who am I to tell the poll workers who to keep and who to take off their roles? Thank you for making the case of having proper ID with your suggestion.

Republicans try to maintain the fiction that Voter ID laws are needed to prevent voter fraud (which is almost nonexistent ), and deny the true reason — to tilt elections to Republicans, because those most affected by Voter ID laws (elderly, minorities and the poor) are more likely to vote Democratic.

The difference roger, is that shipping a package is not a constitutional right. Opening a bank account is not a constitutional right. Voting IS a constitutional right and therefore no law shall be made to infringe upon that right. Besides, PA was unable to produce any case of in person voting fraud. I guess you know what they say, if it's not broken, fix it.

Quoting: "... Voter ID laws are needed to prevent voter fraud (which is almost nonexistent ) ..."

This is a well-worn argument that has no legs. What you really mean to say: "... prevent voter fraud (that has few prosecuted cases) ...." Trying to build an argument on a false premise of "no fraud" fails quickly. A couple of very easy and simple cases for opportunity has been presented above. Just because the cases don't hit the court scene does not mean they don't exist. To think that many are not taking advantage of these holes is to be naive.

To use another example, every DUI case has the driver drunk 78 times before they are caught (averages, so some below, some above). To say that only XXX cases of DUI are reported, so there isn't a problem, is to deny the other 77 times the driver was on the road drunk. To say there are only a few cases of fraud is to deny all the other cases that go undetected, overlooked with a wink, or not prosecuted. Voting is far more political than drunken driving.

Jacob, you are exactly right about the difference. Mailing a package does not require citizenship responsibility. Opening a bank account does not require citizenship responsibility. Voting does require citizenship responsibility. The responsibility is far more important than shipping a package, or opening a bank account. Why would we want to diss the responsibility associated with voting? As you state, voting is a constitutional right. Therefore, shouldering the responsibility carries much more weight an shipping a package, or having a bank account.

Roger, if that one parenthetical bothers you so much, take it out. This still remains:
Republicans try to maintain the fiction that Voter ID laws are needed to prevent voter fraud, and deny the true reason — to tilt elections to Republicans, because those most affected by Voter ID laws (elderly, minorities and the poor) are more likely to vote Democratic.``NE12Ukid

NE12... please join Denny in the group that considers the issues on the basis of politics, not principle.

To be sure, Romney will not win in PA. He has demonstrated that he is a dismal candidate. We now have two amateurs running for the highest office in the land. We know the reality of the present Administration, and we have conjecture on the part of the wanna-be. The conjecture is no better than the reality of the present.

As I wrote in another thread a couple of days ago, running a dog catcher against the present Administration should have been a shoo-in. The fact that the race is so close on a national basis reveals how weak Romney is as a candidate. It seems like any GOP candidate should have a double digit lead at this point. With the anemic economic growth rate, with no growth plans from the present Administration, with a dismal foreign policy (can't even decide if Egypt is an ally or not, can't understand the demonstrations are against the US, can't deal with the Afghan war, etc), with no leadership on the tax policies with only a couple of months to go before January 1, with a spiraling deficit, with 1 of 8 citizens on food stamps (and growing), ... why would we want to conitnue this path?

But, Romney has not spoken about a growth plan either. No growth policy at the RNC, no foreign policy mention, ... more dismal performance.

The PA voter ID law will have no impact on the outcome of the PA presidential election.

REGISTERED voters have NOT had to show one of the specifically listed ID to vote in PA. During the primary election, voters were asked about ID, almost as a "practice" session, but it was not required. The upcoming November election is the first time this particular list of photo IDs is being required.
I also have not had to show any of those listed IDs at any doctor appointments in the past year, in fact not ever.
I have shown my medical insurance card, which does not have a photo, and which would not be acceptable ID for voting under this law.

Susan - You've never had to show ID to vote in Pennsylvania.

Yes Mike, I have had to show an ID to vote every time in PA and when I lived in FL years ago.

I've never showed Photo ID to vote. I did present a utility bill the first time I voted at my new polling place to prove residency. And the poll workers have compared my signature to the one on record every time I've voted. Not sure which state you're voting in, Susan.

you're right, Mike, and I have voted in PA since 1970, at four different polling places over the years.

When I voted several months ago, I had to show ID, but I could have fought that because the law wasn't in place then. They were just "practicing" and making us aware that we had to show ID in November. I never had to show prior to then. I wanted to, but they didn't want to see it....It was a good picture too :0.

Susan, I work the polls every election. In the spring we had EVERY person either show ID or ask do I need to show you my license. We told each person you will need it in November. What's the big deal? I don't know what the problem is. You pretty much have to show ID for anything important anyways.

Quoting: "... However, in this day and age that means usually voting for a person based on there policy, not hair cut...."

That would be "their" policy ... I'm sorry, but the polling would disagree with you. Why is Pres Obama's favorability rating so much higher than the ratings of his policies? "... hair cut ..." has always played a role. Why was John Kennedy so popular? Why did Al Gore hire a fashion consultant during his campaign?

Why do we have reason to think that anything has changed with regard to people's perception of the candidates? Remember in the last election, over 50% of those coming from the voting booth could not identify Nancy Pelosi? Were these the voters that were familiar with policy? I think not.

Recent polls showed that only about 5% of our citizens could name the justices of the Supreme Court. Nearly 70% could not name one Judge. 39% of our citizens cannot name Joe Biden as the Vice-President. Are these the folks who vote policy over glitz? Technology and communications are great tools. But, the availability of these tools has not changed how well the voter is informed.

Roger, the more important part of Jacob's message is IMO not the part about the hair cut. Jacob correctly wrote: I still do not see why this law is needed when it's creators admit they can find no proof of in person fraud in PA.

Yes, the death certificate is useful in managing the voter registrations. But, this transaction does not happen with the poll workers.

If Romney were a democrat, would you say the same thing, Denny?

Denny, you are tell us that politics is more important than principle. Why do you believe this? At what point do you wish to discard principle in favor of politics? Help us understand the line you draw.

Turzai's words about Romney winning Pennsylvania will not come to fruition. Has anyone seen an Obama, Romney or SuperPAC commercial on the air here for weeks? No. That's because both campaigns are aware Obama has basically wrapped up Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes and they are spending their money elsewhere. However, it will be interesting to see how Voter ID might impact turnout with downballot congressional or state House/Senate races.

YES, He is an idiot, just like BUSH, right or left. To be honest I find it hard to believe that in a country this size with this many "Educated" people from so many different backgrounds these "two" are the BEST we can get to run. This is downright shamful! Oh sorry Susan "Shameful!"

USC wise mom, This is a problem as I see it. When we tell countries around the world that for a true democracy you have to have free and open elections we can proudly point to our system as best in the world. there is no small print for free and open. when you start putting hurdles in the way you diminish that.

Well said Bob!

The war on terror has changed many of our rights and freedoms photo ID's are needed every where

No, the "war on terror" did not change anyone's rights or freedoms. The Constitution is still intact.

Mike if you think 911 hasn't changed the way we do things in this country you are living in a fantasy world come back to reality.

bob,

We do have free and open elections. Rules come with freedom. RULE - You can't just walk into any polling place and vote. RULE - You have to register to vote. RULE - You have to prove who you are to vote.

Hooray!! Someone with brains!

Outraged - I didn't see anything about gun control. I'm a democrat and I'm against gun control.

No hypocrisy. Rights are undeniable, no matter how you choose to spin then facts.

@Mike – One only has to think back surrounding the recent tragedy in Colorado and what was said in the various discussions on this site regarding whether additional regulations (gun control) were needed to make sure nothing like that ever happens again to understand my post.

There are a few here in this discussion who called for additional regulations surrounding the right of gun ownership, yet decry any regulations surrounding the right to vote. There’s your hypocrisy Mike.

It's not my hypocrisy, Outraged. I support all freedoms guaranteed to us as citizens.

It's your hypocrisy to be upset about gun regulations and yet have zero issues with requiring ID to cast a vote.
You can't have it boith ways!

@Mike – Please tell me where I posted that you personally were being hypocritical on this thread. That’s right, I didn’t.

Also, please show me where I posted I was opposed to showing an ID to purchase a firearm. That’s right, I didn’t.

I’m not the one who’s trying to have it “boith” ways. I’m merely pointing out the hypocrisy here Mike.

But I suppose I should expect as much from someone who called out cc as “. . . one of the main offenders on Patch when it comes to inappropriate behavior” yet goes on to ask another poster “Were you dressed like a magician when you pulled those imaginary numbers out of thin air? Did you say Presto! or Abra Cadabra!” This is but one example of such behavior.

That’s the kind of poster you are Mike. You feign disgust at inappropriate behavior all the while displaying disgusting, inappropriate behavior. So yes, I guess I’m now finally calling you a hypocrite. Embrace your hypocrisy Mike, it’ll make you feel better to finally be intellectually honest with yourself.

Outraged - thanks for finally calling out those like the Msgt. and others who fight against any additional gun laws because the ones on the books are not being enforced, yet want this suppression law, even though there are already laws on the books against voter fraud. I agree, there's a lot of hypocrisy out there.

Btw, I'm also a gun owner, approve of sensible gun laws, but would be against any law being rushed into effect to prevent any class or group of citizens from using their 2nd ammendment rights.

Sensible regulations are brought about after much debate and planning, not rushed into because there happens to be a presidential election coming up.

@JS – You’re right. There is a lot of hypocrisy here on both sides. I didn’t see the Msgt. you speak of comment here that they were in support of the Voter ID law. Nor do I have any knowledge that this Msgt. you speak of oppose showing an ID to purchase a fireman. If this Msgt. you speak of takes these opposing positions, then that would be hypocritical.

What I did see is you post that you oppose the Voter ID law or as you like to call it “suppression law,” but support “sensible gun laws” that impact the right to firearm ownership. You would need to clarify if showing an ID to purchase a firearm is included in your definition of “sensible gun laws.” If so, you’d be a hypocrite. Tell us JS, are you a hypocrite?

Dearest Outraged Citizen,
I quote from the gospel of Outraged Citizen
"There’s your hypocrisy Mike."

Read your own dang posts before you ask people questions.

Outraged - And in regard to CC, I can't begin to count the number of times that poster has used words like Obummer and Dumbocrats. That is what most folks call inappropriate behavior.

And frankly, Sir Outraged, if you think I'm wrong then I'm confident that I'm doing something right.

@Mike – I suppose you need a refresher in reading comprehension. Let the lesson begin class.

You see class, Mike posted, “Outraged - I didn't see anything about gun control. I'm a democrat and I'm against gun control. NO HYPOCRISY. Rights are undeniable, no matter how you choose to spin then facts.” [emphasis mine] So class, Mike denied the presence of hypocrisy in this thread because he didn’t yet understand the correlation between the thread on the Vote ID law and past statements by contributors on gun control.

In an attempt to educate young Mike, I posted, “@Mike – One only has to think back surrounding the recent tragedy in Colorado and what was said in the various discussions on this site regarding whether additional regulations (gun control) were needed to make sure nothing like that ever happens again to understand my post.

There are a few here in this discussion who called for additional regulations surrounding the right of gun ownership, yet decry any regulations surrounding the right to vote. There’s your hypocrisy Mike.”

Poor Mike took the statement, “There’s your hypocrisy Mike” as a personal affront when it was a statement pointing out to Mike the hypocrisy he misguidedly believed was nonexistent was indeed real. But let’s forgive Mike class and take this as a learning moment in reading comprehension. I’m sure Mike will do better in the future by reading all dang posts carefully before responding.

Outraged CitizenI find the hypocrisy here sickening. You have those here who are opposed to the Voter ID bill because “you shouldn’t have to show an ID to exercise your rights.” Yet, these are the same people that call for greater gun control. >>>

Does your screen contain a slew of messages that the rest of us can't see here?

@Mike – Why do you make it so easy? I guess we need another lesson class.

Here are some of Mike’s gems in his treatment of others:

“Did you pull that number out of your butt? Do you just make things up to make yourself feel better?”

“RN = Real Nutjob” – when referring to a fellow poster who was a Registered Nurse.

“Debs - Those are some great stories! You should insert some leprechauns into your story, makes it more believable.”

“Proud American - Actually, I would refuse to receive care from a nutjob like Debbie, RN or not. Fortunately, I know TONS of mediacal professionals who support this decision.” – I’m not sure I’ve heard of a “mediacal” professional. You see class, this is an inside joke as Mike likes to point of out others’ misspell words.

So class, I think these examples give an insight into Mike’s personality. He’s a bully who hates bullies. The comical part, or is it sad, is I’m not sure Mike knows this about himself. Well, let’s consider this the first step in Mike’s intervention.

Hey everybody! Outraged Citizen has all the answers! She's the expert we all need to straighten out reality.

It doesn't matter is Outraged Citizen is right or wrong, she never let's facts get in the way of her version of reality.

Yeah, I'm a jerk. So what.

@NE12Ukid – Welcome to the discussion within the discussion.

I suggest you review the lesson above on reading comprehension as it is a topic you’ve struggled with in the past.

Ah, there’s that angry little child we all knew lived inside of Mike. It’s nice to see insecure little Mike out there for the world see.

You’re right Mike; I do have all the answers. Because I’m all knowing and seeing, I’m thinking about starting a church. You interested? It sounds like you could use a little guidance in your life.

In all seriousness Mike, the difference is I don’t call people jerks all the while acting as a jerk.

The rights that you are arguing about are both guaranteed by the US Constitution, but neither are "absolute" rights. They are both limited and regulated by government. If they were absolute rights then felons would have the right to vote and the right to bear arms as well.

Well said Outraged Citizen. Every time I buy a new gun I have to show ID and my permit. Show I file a lawsuit against the Democrats that put this law into place because it goes against the constitution of the United States.

EDITOR, I want mikes name removed from here he is on a personal attack of my name. I am tired of this person attacking my name.

cc - Yes you should file a lawsuit! The government is infringing on your right to bear arms. That should bother everyone.
As should any other infringement upon your rights, like requiring a voter show ID at the polls.

Rights are rights

"Every time I buy a new gun I have to show ID and my permit. Show I file a lawsuit against the Democrats that put this law into place because it goes against the constitution of the United States."

Are you serious CC? You have called people "little girl," "idiot," "dumocrat," etc...You have gotten so bad that I have flagged you as inappropriate myself a few times after picking my jaw back up off of the floor.

The little girl comments were directed at me for being in college, and I see you just said that you were early for class and picking up an ebook? Something that really only has gained popularity in the last couple of years... Looks like someone else is young and in college...Probably younger than me too. Oh you anonymous trolls and your tricky tricky ways.

OC has called people racist old men, no talent hacks, etc...And has an awful lot of time for being a high income earning business professional formerly in close contact with high profile politicians in D.C.. And a V for Vendetta mask as an icon as a late thirties-forty something corporate employee (you consider 29 "a kid" and claim to have spent 10 years working..puts you at least at 32 though probably older considering your criticism of 29, but when you are just trolling threads and making up a life story for credibility I suppose you do not really have to worry about consistency in details)?

I have no interest in participating in this thread and just wanted to check out the article, made the mistake of checking the comments (really ridiculous as always), and could not help seeing CC's plea to the editor.

Someone is ruining your good (anonymous) name huh? You guys ruin these threads.

Erin- I wrote that because others have wrote the same about me, calling them names back when they have done the same thing to me over and over again. I got a good laugh out of it also when I wrote that.

Some on here think they are entitled to call others names but when it is done back to them they boohoo to the editors. Some on here think that they are above others *democrats* so when it is done to me don't expect me to sit back and not attack back.

Erin, your quote "The little girl comments were directed at me for being in college, and I see you just said that you were early for class and picking up an ebook? Something that really only has gained popularity in the last couple of years... Looks like someone else is young and in college...Probably younger than me too. Oh you anonymous trolls and your tricky tricky ways."

I have been purchasing books off of Amizon and Borders book store and went into Carnegie Library in Oakland and didn't know I could borrow ebooks from them. I filled out a application for a Library Card and had to show Photo ID and give them a credit card so that I could borrow E Books. Trust me when I wrote that it had nothing to do with you ERIN as your not on my mind 24/7. I was stating to Mike that I had to show Photo ID to get a Library Card. Mike got his library card at 10 and still uses. They couldn't pull my library card from high school (back in the 70's), I applied for a library card, and show PHOTO ID for it.

Erin I see you showing your true colors, *Smile* it isn't bad that you can't make it out in the real world. I'm glad your a professional student, as that is how you choose to live your life. I on the other hand have made a success of my life, raised 5 children and I do go back to school on occasions for classes that I choose to take.

Then again isn't that the democratic way as you see it.

Proud - Republicans want a fair election? How about a call to enforce the laws already on the books. Why are Republcan voter suppression laws being successfully fought in the courts all over the country?

Your ridiculous assertion that I go out and help people get their ID's is very funny. You have no idea what I do for my community. There are many more causes out there that are not artificially created issues because one party doesn't think they can win an election on the merits of their ideas. I participate in some of them. I wouldn't think to ask what you do for your country, cause you're a proud American and I'm sure you're out there every day improving the lives of others.

Besides, helping others get their ID's is a moot point. See the Trib's front page headline today - "For Nov. 6, voter ID law like 'dead meat'". Another voter suppression law that will fail to affect this year's election.

Why is it ridiculous to help your follow citizens if they really need help to get a voter ID. It is a fifty fithy chance the law may also be passed as a smart citizen you shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper they have agendas too. And if they had help getting their ID now they will not be denied the right to vote. An as a proud American I try to help people eveyday regardless of the cause I don't pick and choice just because I may have a different opinion.

Proud - Good to hear that as a Proud American you help out with causes and don't choose causes based on your opinion. Except I find it hard to believe that anyone does that. Sounds kind of goofy to me.

So it you're anti-abortion, you'd be out escorting women through the picket line to obtain their abortion? How many days did you participate in the Occupy movement? If you were anti-union, would you be volunteering to help union organizers? I choose the issues I get involved in by my beliefs in what is right and necessary. I would assume everyone does. Your statement that you don't base your helping on your opionion or beliefs is nonsense.

As far as not believing what you read in the paper, I picked the Trib because, yes, they do have an agenda. It's a far right wing agenda -- so how does this headline promote their pro-Rebublican voice?

I think people in Washington and Greene counties would disagree that Sen. Casey has done very little for the state. He was here constantly in 2007 and 08 working with residents there to block Allegheny Energy's proposed high-voltage power line. The state PUC eventually agreed that it wasn't needed. Also, Casey did quite a bit of work during those years to help get the new commissary built in Moon Township.

MIke, -Casey did help with building the Commissary in Moon Township, but it was actually Tim Murphy who got it built. Same with saving our base in Moon, it is Tim Murphy who is a Republican that fought hard for both of them. Tim was the one that saved our base years ago from closing.

Amazing what bipartisan teamwork can do with our federal government, huh?

Mike I agree, they both worked together for one cause saving our base and getting the commissary built. Both needed saved and both are going to be in Pittsburgh for a long time.

NE ... you may vote on issues, but you post on Patch in political terms.

@NE12Ukid – Touché, you’re absolutely correct here. I’m not aware of any “fireman” that are for sale. Although with recent claims of misconduct by a fire company in a neighboring town, we might have to clarify what “for sale” means exactly.

Regarding your above post, I’m not sure I understand your statement, “. . . not peppering the board with ad hominem attacks as you have with Roger.” I’m not aware of any ad hominem attacks I’ve peppered at Roger. Unless of course, Roger happens to be Mike’s real name. ;)

Additionally, Mike has self-identified himself as a jerk. I’m not sure it’s an ad hominem attack to call someone a jerk who believes they’re a jerk.

All that said, I’m glad you enjoy some of what I post. You have your moments as well. Heck, even Mike has his moments and I’ve told him as much.

Adding....not that any of that medical exchange has to do with the right to vote.
Registered voters showed ID at the time of their registration. Shouldn't need more or different ID regs now.

Showing PHOTO ID has nothing to do with HIPPA laws, to many people give their medical cards to friends and family to use (medical fraud), because they don't have ID. It is usually caught when their friends or family used their medical cards and they get a bill for services rendered. Then they call the doctors or hospitals stating that they never went there for treatment and don't owe the money but someone (family or friend) used their medical cards and they forgot and how it was caught.

My company bills medical insurances and we have everyone show PHOTO ID along with their medical cards We make a copy of their Photo ID along with their Medical Cards (front and back), because of fraud. It is the Doctors, Hospitals and Medical Providers that have to send back Payments when their is fraud. That is why 99.9 percent of all medical providers ask for Photo ID and make copies of everything to put in their records.

Guess since everyone in the world knows who NE12Ukid and Alias is, they don't have to show PHOTO ID, but the rest of America does.

Adding....not that any of that medical exchange has to do with the right to vote.
Registered voters showed ID at the time of their registration. Shouldn't need more or different ID regs now.
And cc, your wild fantasies are becoming more boring by the day. Get a life.

mr ne12ukid just as what you write is boring and stupid to others and we don't really care about the half truths that you post on here. In fact it was you who stated "Then you'd be guessing wrong. Sounds more like someone's way of dealing with HIPPA perhaps."

Once again showing ID's in Doctors offices, Dentist, Eye Doctors, Hospitals doesn't have anything to do with HIPPA LAWS, it has to do with people that have given their medical cards to others to use, MEDICAL FRAUD, and most of the times it is caught when people who gave their cards to friends and families to use and when they turn around and get a bill, they are the first ones calling the Doctors offices or Insurance Companies saying they were never treated at these places, then it is the Providers that have to return the money to the Insurance Companies because of Fraud. 99.999999999 percent of the people have to show ID when they go to Doctors and Medical Providers but your the only one in the United States that doesn't as everyone knows the great mr ne12ukid.

For the record you can go online and register to vote without showing ID, you can pick up an application in the post office, mail it in with your name address and what party you want to vote and do send in your photo id with the post card that is returned to the Election Board. I guess your pissed off because you can't go vote under all the different names you created since you can't get valid ID's for these names.

HIPPA has nothing to do with this!

I’m not sure if Mike is flirting with me or just jealous he lost our “bullying contest.” If it’s the later, don’t worry kid. All you need to do is hit the gym. You’ll get me next time.

Lost the contest? More like I've got work to do.

Go find someone else to bluster and rant your nonsense to, perhaps the mailman will talk to you?

God have mercy on our souls if that man gets four more years!! To think that America will vote for this guy again makes me sick! Morons!!!!!

May Thor and Zeus destroy the souls of those who oppose the true victor of this election.

What a load of nonsense, Jason.

Susan M - You're missing the point. The Supreme Court of the US has ruled that you shouldn't have to show ID.

It doesn't matter how easy or difficult it is to get and ID.

Again, Mike proves himself woefully inept at understanding how the Supreme Court has actually ruled.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-21.ZS.html

For those of you who would like the “Cliff’s Notes” version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board

Once again Outraged Citizen gets it wrong!

You really need a superhero suit, Outraged. Something with a cape and an OC on the chest. Don't ask some other folks on here to help you make the costume, they might end up mispelling OC.

I was discussing this Supreme Court case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_v._Virginia_Board_of_Elections
Take a moment and read about it.

OUTRAGED CITIZEN AWaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy..........................

@ Mike – The case you cite has to do with the payment of a poll tax in order to be able to vote. It has nothing to do with showing an ID in order to be able to vote. I happen to agree that no one should have to pay a tax in order to be able to vote. Furthermore, this case was decided in 1966.

The case Crawford v. Madison County Election Board case deals with Indiana’s state law that a person show a photo ID in order to be able to vote. The court ruled 6-3 that Indiana’s law did not violate the US Constitution. This case was decided in 2008.

All hyperbole aside, you’re just wrong here.

Dearest Outraged
You have an opinion and I have an opinion. They're both on opposite sides of this argument. We're both convinced that we are correct.
Let's stop this ridiculous argument. Neither one of us is in position of authority to render a final decision.

Mike

Your article from I was discussing this Supreme Court case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_v._Virginia_Board_of_Elections
Take a moment and read about it.

The case was filed by Virginia resident Annie E. Harper, who was unable to register without having to pay a poll tax. She brought the suit on behalf of other poor residents and herself. After being dismissed by a U.S. district court, the case went to the United States Supreme Court.

THE ARTICLE SAYS THAT SHE COULDN'T REGISTER WITHOUT PAYING A POLL TAX, NOT VALID PHOTO ID.

"MOMMY!"

LOL

We're all adults here, Roger. I believe you guys can treat with each other with respect and have thoughtful discussions while burning the midnight oil.

Mike, with all the requests to have people kicked out, erased, or otherwise intended to be gone, ... adults, ... not so sure.

Anyway, I am "stop following." The next thread on the political race will be starting soon, and the same faces, with the same flimsy issues (e.g. "middle class") will be taken apart again.

I stopped following these threads long ago, Roger. These unending comment streams about politics have blown my mind as well. But people don't seem to like to comment on good stories about the local bake sale or community projects. That's not our fault. We're merely a reflection of society.

cc - Not even remotely true. I was in the military for 8 years and I still have lots of friendships with active duty and reserve folks.

Jon so do I have relatives in the military, I wasn't talking about bringing them home, was talking about letting them vote early. Seems the democrats want them not to vote as early as they have in the past.

I think most Americans would prefer them to come home than have them vote early from The Desert.

You are right, Jon.
cc apparently bought into this right wing lie which was being spread and instead of checking the facts, cc tried to spread it more, here.
This all has to do with what was in the news weeks ago, the state of OHIO trying to restrict some voting times, a suit was flied against them. Romney put his foot in his mouth AGAIN, apparently clueless as to what was actually happening.
You can read all the TRUE details here:
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/obama-not-trying-to-curb-military-early-voting/
Mitt Romney wrongly suggests the Obama campaign is trying to “undermine” the voting rights of military members through a lawsuit filed in Ohio.
Conservative blogs and opinion pieces have also misrepresented the case and a fundraising email appeal from a group called Special Operations Speaks wrongly says that Obama “deploys army of lawyers to suppress military’s voting rights.
The lawsuit, filed by the Obama campaign, Democratic National Committee and Ohio Democratic Party in July against Ohio’s secretary of state and attorney general, asks for an injunction to block implementation of state laws that modified in-person early voting regulations.
(Mail-in absentee ballots are not affected; the new regulations affect in-person early voting.)
Contrary to conservative claims, the Democratic lawsuit seeks to restore early voting “for all Ohio voters.”
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/obama-not-trying-to-curb-military-early-voting/

I guess the wondrful Commander and Chief loves his armed forces so much he cut military spending so the military is the lowest since WWII. The middle east is waiting to explode and Iran will have a nuclear weapon shortly and what is his wise choice , cut spending on the military . A real commander and chief would be building the military up so they can handle the war on terror . I hope the military realizes what type of commander and chief they have and use their right to vote to make him a one term president. Then he can get a job with the pimp with a limp and drug using rappers .

NE12Ukid yes you quote such unreliable sources as factcheck, then again that is the only garbage site the democrats believe is true just like obama full of horse dung. obummer is so against the military and wants to destroy it. obummer promised to bring all our men home yet they are still there and it was him obummer who sent our men into a third country for war. You can believe what you want but obummer needs to go as he isn't worth anything to any TRUE AMERICANS. all he has done in less that 4 years is spend trillions on anything.
NE12Ukid i'm glad you believe factcheck, but most people don't

cc: NE12Ukid yes you quote such unreliable sources as factcheck.

Unreliable? Ohio’s largest newspapers ALL had stories exposing this latest round of GOPpomposity, with all three concluding that
the Romney campaign was deliberately misrepresenting the facts.
If you don't like factcheck:
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/obama-not-trying-to-curb-military-early-voting/
How's politi-fact:
Obama’s lawsuit clearly states that it seeks to permit all Ohioans - not just members of the U.S. military - to vote during the three days before the election, as was the case in 2008. The suit in no way suggests restricting early voting by members of the military.It is simply dishonest for Romney and his backers to claim that Obama’s effort to extend early voting privileges to everyone in Ohio constitutes an attack on military voters’ ability to cast ballots on the weekend before elections.We rate the claim False.
Or the recently in the news MotherJones, Aug. 6 headline story: Today's Outrage of the Day™ is Mitt Romney's contention that Barack Obama hates our men and women in uniform and wants to prevent them from voting.
Romney was just flat-out lying when he implied last week that Obama was trying to "undermine" the voting rights of members of the military.
Still not your cup of tea?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/military.asp
There's four sources, plus reference to three newspapers; what have you got as proof otherwise?
Pure red herring, your usual tactic.

NE12Ukid

SORRY DON'T READ FACTCHECK OR SNOPES, 2 PLACES THAT AREN'T ALWAYS TRUE but are owned by fellow democrats, which I wouldn't trust. but to democrats is the bible

Proud American, what does this mean? " I hope the military realizes what type of commander and chief they have and use their right to vote to make him a one term president. Then he can get a job with the pimp with a limp and drug using rappers ."

Why is our president going to join up with "pimps with a limp" and "drug using rappers (as opposed to the non-drug using rappers I assume)" after his term is up?

cc, There's four sources, plus reference to three newspapers; what have you got as proof otherwise?
NOTHING.

mr ne12ukids what the dumocrat newpapers rely on snopes and factcheck for all their proof, i doubt that very much, you just like to blow your hot air everywhere, which is full of nothing. not everyone believes factcheck nor snopes as you do, then again coming from you is hot air.

Snopes is run by the Democrats? Really cc????? Do you have anything to prove this??

What barrier, Mike????? Having to prove who you are is a barrier???

Ed M - It's been explained to you again and again. You don't agree with it. That's your right.
Now imagine if you had to fill out a form and present it to the proper authorities before you were allowed to express your opinion regarding this manner.

That is what this issue is about. If you don't agree, that's fine. None of us are here to try and change your mind. You want to know how others feel and they've told you.

There's nothing more to be said.

Correct, Mike, there is nothing more to be said because you don't have an answer to the questions I asked. Having to prove who you are isn't a barrier!

Ed M - Incorrect. I can't be bothered to read your question, that's why I haven't answered your question.
That's usually why people on here don't answer your questions.

OK Mike, keep you head in the sand and see only what you want to see. Narrow mindedness and fear mongering help no one.

@Kelly... You feel like laughing. I feel like crying.

LOL! somebody threw my name in that mix and I am not a "pretend person", Kelly.
Sometimes it si,si gets on a roll and just can't quit. I think Mike got put in there too. Pretty funny if it were not so sad.
Si, si! No, no!

I thought you were done commenting? It's too tempting isn't it? As to the question on why the court isn't focused on funcutality, that is not their job. It is not necessary to explain why a law is necessary, it can stand as long as it does not violate our commonwealth's constitution. Now, one could make the case against the law that since no cases of in person voter fraud in PA exist, this law in an unnecessary restriction on our rights. The defendants of the law do not have to prove functionality, merely constitutionality.

That is not what I asked, and I thought I would take a second and try to direct focus back to the article above because I found the link provided to be informative and helpful to my own understanding.

That is both hilarious and a really good suggestion.

I did a "stop following" so I don't know why I still get e-mail alerts.

However, while your FB suggestion might sound like an appropriate one, it puts Patch between a rock and hard place. Patch desperately needs site traffic. The recent story said that each site is costing about twice the incoming revenues (averages).

The FB suggestion would undoubtedly reduce the participation significantly (seen it elsewhere). At this point in time, with Patch trying to increase traffic, the FB idea would produce the opposite effect. While it might stop the bickering, it also might mean Patch is a step closer to extinction. Pouring money into a loosing venture does have an end.

Patch has the intent of covering local stories. And, most sites do this to an extent. In the past few weeks, it also is pretty clear that a strategy was implemented to keep the sites populated with presidential election stories. Why? Local stories usually create little interest, many with few or no comments. Only the contentious issues that surround the presidential election generate interest and comments. Nobody can deny this observation, and the strategy of a steady stream of stories around the election continues. Only the Patch internals know if the site traffic is higher, or if there are just many more visits from the same eyeballs. The advertisers who are in the game for unique eyeballs aren't going to buy the high site traffic, but few unique eyeballs.

Rock and hard place ...

@Mike Jones. I so agree. In the year I worked for Patch, I told anyone who would listen that I was very uncomfortable with the anonymous posting. It just makes people act churlishly. I would love to see a Facebook commenting model and say good-bye to all these trolls.

Some of us choose NOT to belong to FB. If you want to cut all those people out of PATCH, well guess its hasta la bye bye!

The 1st amendment doesn't protect your right on message boards operated by private companies. I also think it's pretty self-evident that people love to say outlandish things and stir the pot when they don't have to put their real names to it. I'm not asking anyone to censor their opinions. But I am asking you to have the guts to put your name next to it and stand by it. And I think a lot of people who read these threads but don't comment here feel the same. I, too, am comfortable with who I am. So much so my name, photo and bio are right next to my words.

By the way, here are the terms of use with these message boards... http://chartiersvalley.patch.com/terms

Wilola Lee, PA registered voter, cannot get a photo ID in Pennsylvania because despite trying for ten years she cannot get a birth certificate from Georgia
Lee is one of the plaintiffs in the case. She worked for Philadelphia Public Schools andeven as a poll worker!
What if YOU were Wilola Lee? What if she were your mother? or your grandma? Oh yea, Cash just calls the woman a DOLT!
You don't care about Wilola, how about Dorothy?
Dorothy Barksdale, another PA REGISTERED VOTER, was born at home by a midwife in Virginia in 1926. She raised two children, both of whom are now deceased. After the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Dorothy worked as a poll official in Philadelphia. Dorothy Barksdale has no photo ID acceptable under this PA photo ID Law. She has never had a drivers license. She and her niece have tried for three years to get her birth certificate from VA, which has advised them they have no birth record.
According to Cash, and a few others here, Dorothy is just another DOLT.
Both women SHOWED ID when they registered to vote, but neither has an ID which is sufficient under this new law.

easier how ? legal people to vote one time or illegal people to vote many times as needed

Because it has just a politicial issue a republican governor passed it and the democrates automatic hate it. With so much idenity thief going on in this world why can't it be just a common sense issue show an ID and make the election as fair as possible it should be what every American wants with freedom comes responsibility.

proud American I agree with you.

Burning a flag is illegal. Read the Flag Code. Problem is it is never enforced.

Yes voting is a right everyone should exercise. Having to prove who you are is not infringing your rights.

Not illegal. Supreme Court has ruled it over and over. There was an amendment to the constitution proposed like 5 years ago (around there), but it was never approved.

Found this very quickly for you to clarify:

Supreme Court Strikes Down All Laws Banning Flag Desecration (1989):

Outside the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Gregory Lee Johnson burned a flag in protest against President Ronald Reagan's policies. He was arrested under Texas' flag desecration statute. In its 5-4 ruling in Texas v. Johnson, the Supreme Court struck down flag desecration laws in 48 states by ruling that flag desecration is a constitutionally protected form of free speech.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/freespeech/p/flagburning.htm

william atwell says:The other thing I personally believe only those who actually pay income tax or who have retired or who have worked and gone on disability should be allowed to vote. Why should people who pay no taxes help decide who becomes elected.>>>

Don't know that I agree with you completely there, William, but if things were done as you wish, a lot of Romney's cronies and other Republicans would not be eligible to vote.
One such group are the 3,000+ in the top 0.1 percent of taxpayers who earned more than $2million in 2011 and paid no federal income tax! HOW? they were real estate investors, wealthy financiers, fund managers who's income came from capital gains.. Combine their lower tax rate with tax loss carryonver these millionaires don’t pay federal income tax.
Of course, like the poor and SOME elderly, who don't pay fed income tax, they still pay other taxes.
Also the reason many poorer CITIZENS pay no Federal income tax (though they still pay other taxes) is due to GOP legislation to assist the poor, such as EITC, and Bush's doubling of the child tax credit. Not saying these are bad things necessarily, but they are Republican moves.
And as we all know, more poor people reside in the Red States. So William, if you take away the right to vote from those people, the Democrats could well carry a lot more states' electoral vote. Would this be a good thing to you, William?

You know who got this set of people together the I hate everything ACLU. This group hates crosses. prayers. nativity set, the word God, Christmas tree, ten commandments and the list is to big to print. They are a group that takes a few peoples wishes and tries to make the majority of people live by them. If all of these stories are 100% true I think our elected officals should help them get a photo ID. Joyce Block's situation was caused because she never had documents put in her married name 90 years old and her Social Security card was in maiden name she wouldn't have been able to collect her Social Security if that hadn't been changed seems to be a little more to this story. One thing I will give her she wanted to vote and she got her voter ID instead of saying I can't .

proud American, I too get sick and tired of the ACLU fighting Christmas displays and such, but I also know they have protected our liberties, going back to say, the infamous Scopes trial to Brown v. Board of Education to the more recent Tinker case. How about their several cases protecting online speech?
ACLUs primary focus is protecting freedom of speech, not protecting freedom of speech just for the groups one agrees with.

Well, duh! Sure her birth certificate is in her maiden name! The DMV is at fault for not accepting her birth certificate and marriage certificate as proof.

Her social security is a different story. It is her responsibility to change her name when she got married.

William, did you even read those examples and the ones above? Had NOTHING to do with their income, nothing said about any silver spoons.
As I said, walk a mile in THEIR moccasins, eh? People who are PA registered voters and who are facing enormous difficulty trying to get the ID that would be ACCEPTED by this new law.
Fine, you ate road kill, but did anyone deny you the right to vote?

Just for the record, I am going to follow the example and suggestions made by several others and just ignore cc and post with the other people on Patch forums.
So sorry, cc, you get no further direct response to your baiting nonsense.

You know what I noticed about NE12Ukid in several of his postings. He stated people who couldn't get ID's are poorer, elderly or both and this means more are democrates. Voter ID is to tilt the election towards the republican because the people affected are more likely to vote democrate. Like I stated once before a republican wrote the bill so the democrates hate it it has nothing to do with making sure the election is as fair as possible.

proud American agree 100%, but if obummer put the law into place then they would fight you to death that it was the best law ever put into place.

<You know what I noticed about NE12Ukid in several of his postings. He stated people who couldn't get ID's are poorer, elderly or both and this means more are democrates. Voter ID is to tilt the election towards the republican because the people affected are more likely to vote democrate>

I see in all reports this is a Republican tactic to tilt the vote their way, nothing to do with any real fraud. Some Republicans and Independents will be affected, mostly Democrats. Even the Republican said this was to get the PA vote for Romney, only way they could.

lol leona aka NE12Ukid your a broken record now. try playing it as a 45 instead of the 78 you have it on, it will sound much better

Wow, I see that last bit of nastiness has been removed, thanks, Editors!

You were better off because the Affordable Care Act wasnt around to take a chunk off of the overcharging you were doing in your medical billing business. THAT is the basis for where your absolute hatred(which we are all sick of listening to) for Obama derives! I knew several months ago by the tone of your posts that you were employed somewhere in the medical field. Perhaps if greedy folks(doctors,hospitals,insurance companies,support services like yours) had not overcharged Medicare/Medicaid for meds and services for so many years and turned it into a racket,health care reform might never have happened. So next time your hatin...take a little peek into the mirror and see who helped cause all of this!

Remember, Tony, the cost of health insurance premiums have risen about 26% since the Affordable Act went into effect. This is only a start to the rising costs.

Last week, the Budget Office provided an estimated update to those who will not be covered by the Act. The number rose from 6M to 9M. One of the cornerstone points of the Act was that "everybody would be covered." This is before the mandatory rules go into effect. Many businesses have already indicated they intend to abandon health insurance benefits. Time will tell how many of these businesses will follow through. Forget the costs for a moment, and consider only the population coverage. A primary goal of the Act will be a failure.

As far as costs, the estimates continue to rise. History has shown us that every Fed-managed program never that provides social services eventually is far more costly than estimates. Why do we believe the Act will be any different?

Tony Montana
7:29 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

You were better off because the Affordable Care Act wasnt around to take a chunk off of the overcharging you were doing in your medical billing business. THAT is the basis for where your absolute hatred(which we are all sick of listening to) for Obama derives!>>>>>

WOWZER! Tony Montana, do you actually KNOW this? If so it surely would, as you say, explain A LOT!

I just love ne12ukid and his alias leona post on here, doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they are one in the same person. It is so funny actually watching this person answer his own post because poor NE12Ukid, aka his wonderful other names isn't getting the attention that they want so he has to now pat himself on the back and say he is right to himself. It's it just like when you called the lady "the crazy cat lady that medical professionals told you that they were nuts. LOL

Does it really matter? I am not seeing any similarities between the two posters that jump out at me right away, but I also don't have time to analyze the two posters...but...does it really matter?

You are an anonymous poster. Nobody is getting polled, votes are not being tallied, and we really should not be picking teams and ganging up on invented opposition sooo...does it really matter if the same person posts under a different name or not?

In short: attempting to personally discredit someone on an anonymous comment thread does not work. It really doesn't even work when you attempt to discredit an non-anonymous poster. (eg proud american called me a "professional student." Not true, but it really didn't matter anyways bc nobody really cared about a personal attack from an anonymous comment.) The reverse is true as well. ie: Attempting to gain credibility with personal experience/info as an anonymous poster holds zero value.

So if we left the personal out of it (anything regarding a poster) & just talked about the articles above & issues, this would be a much more pleasant place.

Did you read the links provided? By me or this article?

Erin why does a person have to give you a name to have an opinion. I could give you any name doesn't have to be my name and that would make it a better opinion. You can call be Jane Doe now does that make it better. A lot of great statements have been by anonymous.

Nowhere in that comment did I say that it did. I said that because everyone is posting anonymously, whether they use one name or two, does not really matter. Nor does attempting to make oneself credible or someone else less credible..because you are anonymous...making all personal statements about yourself or anyone else pointless.

"I could give you any name doesn't have to be my name and that would make it a better opinion."

Exactly. that was my point. It does not matter if ML is NE1 is LeonA is Me. All anonymous.

Hey, Erin, I mean ml.....don't forget PITT983 and Mike and Brute and there was this one other one I'm not remembering....
We are now the Magnificent Seven! All the same?
We are EIGHT, we are great!
See that Sean John commercial with all the clones? ha ha.
Life is good!

Medical billing eh? Really, Tony?

Exactly. that was my point. It does not matter if ML is NE1 is LeonA is Me. All anonymous.>>>>

Erin, I want to know who is ML, I don't understand.
LA

but ne12ukid lives comfortable off the 2,500 they get a month from social security, and obamacare has done them wonders, they never have to show id to go to drs, dentist, get test done in hospitals, they don't fall under the donut hole now for medications and the government has handed them everything on a silver platter, to go along with the silver spoon in their mouth. They should be proud that they are the only one in the UNITED STATES being treated this way.

Medical billing, eh?
"splains so much...

Where is this test? What is source of this data?

Did you find the information asked yet, cc?

cc has yet to produce a shred of evidence anytime asked LeonA. And this latest post really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. It's nothing more than a shot at the Democrats.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

"State officials in presidential battleground states have found only a tiny fraction of the illegal voters they initially suspected existed. Searches in Colorado and Florida have yielded numbers that amount to less than one-tenth of 1 percent of all registered voters in either state"

As this is clearly not a huge problem that anyone knows about. I really dont understand why its a big deal to authenticate who you are when you vote...?!?!?! It takes less time to do so then it took for me to write this...

Thanks, Amanda.
Might be time also for a little reminder for some people to post some evidence with whatever they claim as facts.
Blessed Sunday, all!

Amanda, I thought that Patch terms and conditions required posters to provide both first and last names (to promote transparency). Why are you guys not enforcing this?

@James... They apparently don't require real names anymore. So have at it with the nicknames.

I agree some have to post their evidence since they are always telling you that your wrong, yet they never back any info up to prove you wrong, but since they think their words are golden that everyone should believe them.

Si' si', senor!
Where's the links/cite sources for your copied texts?

I did not see, can you tell us about this, Jon?

I watched it and seems that obama told some tall fibs, saying that everyone is backing his foreign policies and yet he has no clue what he is doing. Apologizing isn't cutting it to Muslim Nations, but that again is all that obama does.

We need a real president, not obama.

(CBS News) In separate interviews, the president and his challenger answer questions on topics of critical interest to America's voters -- including the economy and jobs, healthcare, national security and the federal budget. Steve Kroft interviews President Barack Obama, and Scott Pelley interviews Governor Mitt Romney.
You can read the actual words here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57518495/campaign-2012-obama-vs-romney/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

If you missed the show, you can watch it here: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7422764n&tag=contentBody;storyMediaBox

Plus the 3,000 new IRS agents hired to enforce it (and paid for by all of us)

Wayne you hit it right on the head. People today don't know how to pick their battles while they are busy fighting the little things our federal government is taking our freedom of choice away from us.

Wayne agree and what happens when obamacare goes though the roof in prices, then who is going to be able to afford it. Under obamacare it is a review board that is going to decide if you get treatment or comfort care, so if you have a disable child, a parent over 70, your going to allow them to make the right choice for you. They are going to overdose the ones they don't want to live with pain med and that operation that you might need might not ever come, obamacare isn't a good choice.

So many in our country William has lost respect for everything this country stands for. The younger generations are losing respect for everything go to a mall and watch how they cut older people off in the isles and stair ways I had an elderly person in a wheel chair and they wouldn't even get out of the way when you said excuse me. Attend a high school football game and watch how many ignore the national anthem. I watch one day as a mother with a stroller was trying to get on the elevator and 5 young people jumped in front of her. In a public situation how many say please, thank you and excuse me. I'm not saying all young people are bad but it seems like it is starting to become the majority. this is where the disrespect for the flag comes from if children are not using respect at home they won't in public places and they won't respect what our country stands for.

proud American, agree with this about the teens and younger generation. What I want to know why didn't their parents teach them manners. I always preach to my children about respecting their elders and have grounded my children for this. My parents when I was growing up made us do volunteer work and I do the same for my children. We can't blame it all just on the kids as it was the parents that should of taught their children respect. This past Friday at the game, I watched my daughter tell her friends to put their hands on their heart during the National Anthem.

You don't have freedom of your own home and property today you now have home owner associations telling you what you can plant, build, paint, put in you yard feed the birds and the list goes on. People can't think on their own anymore they wait for someone else to make the decision for them. They don't even take on the responsibilty of how their children are being raised they are letting the federal government do it for them. But the big worry is I have to show an ID.

We are not USC residents.

These articles are shared on all of the patches so I can respect someone that lives in Upper St Clair and is making a complaint about them. Thank goodness I don't live in Baldwin and I'm sure many feel the same way.

Exercise is good for you! :-)

William good for you. You are paying for your home, their taxes and you should be able to do what you want on your own property. I agree the liberals cause so much problems because they listen to the one that thinks he is the chosen and mighty and they think they are all entitled. What they are entitled to is go get a job, pay their own bills, and quit wanting everything handed to them on a silver plate.

"What happen to it takes a community to raise a child?"

It produced a bunch of whiny entitled kids who would rather call mommy and daddy when life isn't fair because the world isn't gumdrops, rainbows and unicorns like they were promised while getting a trophy for just showing up.

And we have people who are not eligible to vote trying to vote.>>>

Where?You KNOW that people are doing that? Who was caught trying to do that in PA?

To many people were signed up to vote for the chosen one in man different communities and they should never be voting in the first place is what happen, Now that we need to show ID it is the same ones that doesn't like it. Parents aren't raising their children to be polite, they aren't raising them at all, they just go buy their brats what they want to get them off their backs so they can go hang out in the bars, especially the liberal democrats because they think they are entitled and that is how they teach their children to have no respect for others.

And we have people who are not eligible to vote trying to vote.>>>

Where?You KNOW that people are doing that? Who was caught trying to do that in PA? William?

"To many people were signed up to vote for the chosen one in man different communities and they should never be voting in the first place is what happen"

Where is your proof of this statement, cc??

Sorry Ed go find your own proof

the town you speak of only exists in old tv shows and small town USA in the middle of the state.

I loved living in WV, used to be in Phillippi. Nice town! Nice people.

Any news out there on Simpson and his review?

Voter fraud is out there thanks to the Liberals that went and signed up many that should of never voted Now they can't get Photo ID to vote 10 times for the mighty one they are boohooing. I can't wait for election day and have to show my ID to vote. I just want to see after election day all the illegal names that are on the list of registered voters.

Definitely check out the link if you are interested because I do not think that I explained that very well. Twitter and I just don't get each other...I like it for news articles and that is about it.

This is really a very meaningful protest, huh? How could a protest be made much easier than to sit at my computer keyboard and have such an impact. Whew! Who knew? Isn't technology great?

Social networking sites are incredibly powerful communication tools. The meaning of an act is not measured by the perceived effort in accomplishing that act. This is about letting the PA court system know how you feel about an upcoming piece of legislation under review. It does not matter how they get the message, as long as the message gets where it needs to go.

Info on how the "Twitter bomb" becomes effective:

"A Twitter bomb is when a large number of Twitter accounts send a large number of Tweets within a short period of time. A Twitter-bomb reaches a large number of people very quickly. In addition, because Google is displaying Twitter trends in a prominent place, you influence Google search results. The result is disproportionate exposure to personal opinions that would otherwise not find their way in the first page of Google search results, giving them the opportunity to spread virally."

Some people are spending way too much time with the college kids in a non-threatening, non-challenging environment.

We are in deeper trouble than I think if this kid's play has any impact on anything. I would hope the only ones thinking this viral stuff is having any impact are the ones on a college campus where nobody is accountable to anybody.

Steven Singer, an 8th grade teacher, organized this online "twitter bomb" along with protests at courthouses, petitions, etc.

Here is the Patch article about Singer:
http://cranberry.patch.com/articles/teachers-petition-asks-pennsylvanians-to-reject-voter-id-law-f760b1f8

So Erin, you are supporting a teacher that is encouraging a county offical to break the law?? I find that extremely troubling. What kind of example is he setting for his students. Now, if he were working to change the law, I won't have any problem with it. But we shouldn't be teaching young people it is ok to break a law just because we dont agree with it.
And keep it mind, that hitting the delete key as the twitter bombs come in, is just as effective as sending them out. Impersonal protests such as this are rarely taken seriously. They are usually considered a nuisance. You need to put a face to a protest; this is just a "Send" key.

I don't really care if you agree with him or not. If you don't like his Allegheny County petition do something about it like he has. Civil disobedience is a well documented form of legitimate protest that has happened throughout history. Civil rights, labor movements, etc.

This twitter bomb campaign has to do with communicating to the commonwealth court that the law should be delayed. Are you capable of separating the issues? I believe you have admitted that you feel it is unwise to attempt to apply this law so soon before an election.

The hashtag being used is "#haltpavoterid" not "stoppavoterid."

Here is Singers reasoning for using online protesting (and can you guys please start doing some of this research yourself...I have things to do):

We could take to the streets as we have in the past with rallies, picketing legislators offices, etc. However, Judge Simpson will hear the case again on Tuesday, 9/25/12, and possibly Thursday, 9/27/12, in Harrisburg. It will be a challenge to get something together before then.

So I suggest we get all 21st Century on them.

I suggest we use a Twitter bomb.

Erin, you miss the entire point. It doesn't matter if I, or anyone else disagrees with him. He is a teacher. And, he is encoraging a public office to break the law. Teachers need to be role models, and no matter what the cause they should never be seen as encouraging someone else to break the law. Becoming a teacher means you need to lead my example. You are accountable to the children, the parents and the school district. And, he is providing a poor example to his students right now. He is saying, don't like a law, go ahead and break it.

I am not missing your point. I am disagreeing with your point. I think he is setting a fabulous example for his students. Would a teacher practicing civil disobedience during a labor movement pushing for 8 hour work days be a poor example? Absolutely not. Singer believes this is a civil rights issue and is participating in a historically effective and legitimate form of protest. I can only hope that one day my kids will have a teacher so passionate and politically active. Civil disobedience is something that I am very much for and can only hope that if needed, my children will be able to protest laws that feel are violating civil rights.

Are you assuming that these children cannot think for themselves or that their parents are incapable of speaking with them about these things for further education? I was practicing civil disobedience against school assignments handed to me by teachers. I protested an assignment given to me with an essay explaining why the assignment was offensive and misleading. I was a kid perfectly capable of protesting the actions of my teacher. (She reported to me to the guidance counselor who told me I was of a "higher level of intelligence" than the teacher, and I got an A on the assignment after fully expecting to fail or get an incomplete in the class).

I am uncomfortable speaking for Singer any more than I already have. Look him up. Write him. Read for yourself. Participate or not.

sorry, thats 111,000,000 country wide...not limited too florida.

pretty nice way too speak to someones daughter...is she even old enough to voter herself?

No it is not. Geez louise.

The girl claimed to be working for the County Clerks Office. She was not. She was a Romney Campaign volunteer who has since been scolded for her actions.

This has nothing to do with voter Id or even voter fraud. She was walking around registering only people that said that they were voting for Romney.

Once again, NOT paid for by the county. NOT an example of voter fraud. An example of one girl, whether directed to lie by the Romney campaign or not, registering people to vote only if they say that they are voting for Romney. ID has no relevance to this situation at all.

http://www.coloradoconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=804779#.UGG8341lQ7s

"10,791. That’s the number of accounts we reached with our twitter bomb today."
"I’ve tried to find out exactly how many tweets were sent from 6 p.m. - 9 p.m. today but have not been able to do so. I do know we had at least 300 - probably many more."

How was this tracked? Did you just count the number of followers you have and add it up? If you have any stats on this you should also know how many tweets were sent since that would have to figure into the formula. If people see a message and you don't tract a reaction (clicking on a link to a website for example) then its just white noise in the twittersphere.

I know that he did not count followers. I don't know how Steven Singer is keeping track, but you should email him and ask him. Google the guy's name. He is getting nationwide attention with his efforts, so lets give him a little more credit than just shouting into a twitterspace vacuum.

Erin your post interested me until you mention moveon.org. this organiztion is a far left liberal organization sole perpose is to get Obama elected, funded by people like George Soros who hate anything connected with the right even the moderates he is a pure far left progressive and admited socialist. So now we know what the real agenda here is not just a voter ID issue but get Obama elected so now anything you say about this twitter bomb is null and void for people who want a really fair election.

1. This is not by me. I am sharing information that is sent to me by Steven Singer's email campaign.

2. He is going to advertise to anyone that would like to advertise his campaign. Voter ID should not be a partisan issue.

3. Your response has proved that for _you_ it _is_ a partisan issue. Even the mere mention of the twitterbomb being advertised on a site seen as liberal has shut _you_ down. That is extraordinary hypocrisy on your part.

And then you pull another socialist accusation. You realize that the labor movements in the late 1800s were all considered to be "socialist" and "anarchist" movements. Ignorant bias towards those labels literally got people killed, under the law, without evidence of any crime having been committed (over and over and over). New Castle had a socialist mayor for years.

Have you looked into the ridiculous amount of money Soros has donated for the betterment of education? That man helped transition Hungary from communist to capitalist. That as a teenager he lived in Nazi occupied Hungary (he is Jewish)? That he follows a philosophy that states that everyone should challenge his beliefs as they are all potentially wrong and strengthened by further investigation?

Leave Singer's enthusiastic and tireless efforts to delay this voter id law until after the election, something that you admit to wanting as well, out of your socialist obama conspiracy theories.

You caught us. Nothing says "carry the water" for Obama like a hard news story about the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court making a partial decision on Voter ID.

I couldn't disagree with you more, My-Key-Tee. That's the beauty of a open forum, lots of different people with different opinions.
If my opinion was supplied to me by AOL/Huffington Post then I want a check!

(AOL? Really? They can barely keep their head above water as company. How could they mastermind an election?!?)

Obama has failed Americans in his first 6 months in office.

Exactly, you don't care. If you did care you would see that those many mistakes that we made in the "early years" are repeated. That these movements are repeated in cultures around the world. The arguments politically or otherwise are _shockingly_ similar. People tend to react the same way to similar economic, political situations.

Not caring is dangerous.

One of the points about the new castle mayor who was socialist and the accusations of socialism in the labor movements (and anarchism) is that people turn these labels into dirty, taboo words and have violent emotional reactions...But here is the kicker. It was not socialism. Communism is not socialism. Russian communism was certainly not socialism.

Karl Rove has publicly declared that he wants every branch of government to be a one party system. When you just vote for your party regardless of the facts. When you call out that the dems are ruining everything and we need the Republicans to take congress and the presidency, what are you calling for?

You are calling for a one party system.

Your ideologies may have more similarities with Russian communism than you think.

Now, I am going to share these "twitterbomb" protests. People may choose to participate or not.

Erin the reason I said I didn' t care about the 1800's is this is 2012 and we are talking about the need for voter ID stop twisting things around. I care very much about my country and our democracy. As far as socialism, it is not just a bad word it is a bad system , the meaning of COMMUNISM (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary SOCIALIST movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with capitalist economies). these are not my words came from wikipedia . Also I didn't say all dems are bad those are your words there is good and bad in both parties. What makes our country system work is that we have a two party system for checks and balance never said anything about one party.those were your word again
Show me where you got the statement
Karl Rove has publicly declared that he wants every branch of government to be a one party system. Every president would like to have control of the house and senate because it makes it easier to get things done, it doesn't mean that they want a one party system

I'll do you one better. Here is Rove explaining what he meant by want a permanent republican majority (ie: he corrects himself):

MR. RUSSERT: You have said that you--your ultimate goal is a permanent
Republican majority. What does that mean?

MR. ROVE: Well, first of all, there are no permanent majorities in American politics. They last for about 20 or 30 or 40 or, in the case of the Roosevelt coalition, 50 or 60 years and then they disappear. But would I like to see the Republican Party be the dominant party for whatever time history gives it the chance to be? You bet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6430019#.UGJjaI1lQ7s

Erin if you are going to print a transcript print the whole converstion don't end it at you bet. He is a republican and believes in its principles he doesn't say he wants a one party system he wants a majority some times the republican have a majority and sometimes the democrates have a majority ours is not a one party system. A one party system you have no choice they are the majority all of the time. You don't get two choices when you vote you only have one. Can't explain it any easier then that

MR. RUSSERT: You have said that you--your ultimate goal is a permanent Republican majority. What does that mean?

MR. ROVE: Well, first of all, there are no permanent majorities in American politics. They last for about 20 or 30 or 40 or, in the case of the Roosevelt coalition, 50 or 60 years and then they disappear. But would I like to see the Republican Party be the dominant party for whatever time history gives it the chance to be? You bet. I believe in the principles of the Republican Party. I believe in limited government and the right of the individual to make choices and in a strong national defense and in freedom and liberty as being the right of every person on the face of the Earth.

Erin your are far from the truth proud American does care about what is going on.

Oh good Lord. I _never_ said that _Proud_ American did not care about what is going on today. I repeated that Proud American did not care about history (bc she said that she did not care about history) which I was using to show the shocking similarities with civil unrest today, the repetition of the same manipulative rhetoric that tags someone a commie or an anarchist bc the tag takes on a meaning that is completely different from its actual meaning.

And don't act like I intentionally hid Rove's words. Why would I share a cookie cutter definition of Republican ideology? Is it relevant to the conversation? I assumed his named evoked the kinda bipartisan sneer that "Limbaugh" does. You think Soros is twisted & using his money to push a radical agenda? Look into Rove a bit more.

Um...you do have a choice outside of one party. When have you gone to vote and only one person was up for election? Nobody has to vote entirely down their party line. Different positions have different responsibilities to different people. It would make sense to want a different party in one position v another.

Listen guys, it has been fun, but I am really done entertaining this conversation any further. Just keep thinking about that definition of socialism vs what obama actually does, or soros. Rove v. Soros. The dangers of 1 party being in power. etc.

Here is a really good suggestion for a media talk show that is typically always a civil conversation and talks about around some really big concepts outside of party lines. It is neither left wing nor right wing. Really good stuff & interesting conversations.

The station is Free Talk Live and the show is on Sundays. You will not always agree, but you will think until your head hurts. I so appreciate just the way these two hosts talk to each other and to their guests. They have hit a level in political conversations that I would like to attempt to emulate.

Once again. Not left wing. Free Talk Live. Sundays. (I think it is Mike and Stephanie, but I could be super wrong). It is free to download on itunes, streams live online, etc.

Look at what you are saying here. Dude is a weird and fascinating man. But look at what you are saying there! How could he have done all of that and be a socialist!!!????

How can a billionaire be a socialit!?

There's the light bulb.

Erin The meaning I gave you was what it was suppose to be but in reality the socialist communists party you have the elites running the party they take everything and control everything and they keep the masses poor. They them self are not poor they live of the backs of the masses. The theory behind socialism was this wonderful world where everyone shared everything everyone equal but the reason it doesn't work is becuse the elite running the government didn't like to share so you do have some rich socialist.

Look at the definition of socialism that you copied from wikipedia and then look at what you are saying here.

I am done trying to explain this to you.

Down with Voter ID Laws! (or at the very least may it be delayed until after the election).

Why wait on Photo ID, in 4 years the same people crying now that never tried to get Photo ID will be crying in 4 years from now it wasn't enough time. If you give the same people 20 years in 20 years they still will be crying it wasn't enough time to get Photo ID.

We shouldn't be borrowing from these countries and we shouldn't be relying on the middle east for our oil .Some past addministrations have made some serious mistakes and it is high time to turn it around that is why we need honest voting to make sure we get the right people in office.Have my ID do you?
here is some info for you to think about
CURRENT COMPLETE COMMUNISTS STATES
North Korea
Cuba
CURRENT COMMUNISTS STATES UNDERGOING FREE MARKET REFORM REALIZED IT CAN'T SURVIVE AS A FULL COMMUNISTS STATE
China
Laos
Vietnam

ALL FORMER COMMUNISTS COUNTRIES
Afghanistan (1978 - 1992)
Albania (1946 - 1991)
Angola (1975 - 1992)
Benin (1975 - 1990)
Bulgaria (1946 - 1990)
Congo (1970 - 1992)
Czechoslovakia (1948 - 1990)
Ethiopia (1987 - 1991)
Finland (1939 - 1940)
East Germany (1949 - 1990)
Greece (1947 - 1949)
Grenada (1979 - 1983)
Hungary (1919, 1949 - 1989)
Cambodia (1975 - 1993)
Mongolia (1924 - 1992)
Mozambique (1975 - 1990)
Poland (1945 - 1989)
Romania (1947 - 1989)
Somalia (1970 - 1991)
Soviet Union (1922 - 1991)
Tannu Tuva (1921 - 1944)
North Vietnam (1945 - 1976)
Yemen (1967 - 1990)
Yugoslavia (1943 - 1992)
GUESS COMMUNISM REALLY DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL ( went from 29 countries to 2 full communist and 3 partially communists countries years) Give me democracy with all its faults in communists countries we wouldn't be having this debate pretty wonderful isn't it.

Man, I keep debating whether or not to really say anything, but I guess I will. A lot of those countries and dates are really inaccurate. Especially the African countries.

But there I am just playing devil's advocate because I don't anyone is really saying that they would like to be a communist or socialist country. I really don't even understand why we are talking about it...at all...ever.

Where did this totally inaccurate list come from, proud???? You do realize some of these countries no longer exist????

I have no problems showing Photo ID and my Permit when I go and purchase gun. On Saturday before I went to Carrick Sportsmen's Club in South Park, I had to stop and pick up bullets and was asked for Photo ID it isn't a big deal to show ID for something that falls under "My Right to Bear Arms."

Same with Voting, I have an Italian last name that isn't spelled as it is pronounced, so I always give them my Photo ID, makes it easier on them behind the table to look my name up instead of them trying to spell it the way they want to and then they say they can't find it, without listening when you try to spell it to them and they just ignore you and they try to find it the way they want to spell it.

cc when people really do dig into the issue they will find fraud the only thing anyone can do is what is being asked of us get a photo id. This whole debate when it stayed on course and you peel away all the words it boils down to a republican governor passed the laws so the democrates say it is an unfair law. As Americans we should all want a free uncompromised election.

proud,
Yes there is and has been absentee ballot fraud, of course this article and discussion is about PA voter photo ID, not absentee ballots.
Photo IDs won't curb absentee ballot fraud, though other measures may.

Proud American, I agree with you, I was reading the news online and came across this. Voter Fraud is everywhere and the best thing is Photo ID to show who you are. They tried to pass this bill a few times in Pennsylvania while Rendall was Governor and it was shot down. I'm glad that it was passed and will proudly pull out my Photo ID to vote.

The latter part of that quote was standard republican ideology. It was not relevant to my point, and I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that we are all aware of the standard republican ideology. Omitting unnecessary and familiar information is not misleading. My point stands. It is something to think about.

You brought up socialism by making a connection to the protest with soros etc...I brought up Karl Rove as a comparison to Soros. Both are fascinating men. I don't really trust nor care for either.

I take back my previous comment saying that you should get back on task with with subject because I like where this is going. People are copying and pasting some really good definitions, so can we digest the information and apply them (without hyperbole) to modern politicians, philanthropists etc?

"As an economic theory, socialism allows room for capitalism, although the majority of the profits still benefit the people overall. In a socialist economy, private ownership is allowed as long as centralized government can regulate industry and distribute the profit based on work done"

So would Soros, considering his extraordinary wealth and business, be considered a socialist? Do you really think he would favor a Socialist economy? He privately gives money to public institutions like education. Can Obama really be considered a socialist under all of this new information when read and considered carefully?

Well, I am recommending the Sunday show on Free Talk Live, and last Sunday they actually explicity said that they are not a Libertarian show. They advocate reasonable political and social discussions, but do not affiliate themselves with the Libertarian party. Like we are saying below, political parties are always changing and borrowing from each other. It is not necessary to label everything. Especially a radio talk show. the "label" (much like the latter part of Rove's quote that I left out) reveals nothing in particular about what is being labeled.

Wikipedia said it is chiefly a Libertarian political talk show not me .

Yeah, but Rambo taught me that commies are the bad guys.

"Economic differences between socialists and communists
In a Socialist economy, the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. On the other hand, in a communist society, there is no centralized government - there is a collective ownership of property and the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

For a Capitalist society to transition, the first step is Socialism. From a capitalist system, it is easier to achieve the Socialist ideal where production is distributed according to people's deeds (quantity and quality of work done). For Communism (to distribute production according to needs), it is necessary to first have production so high that there is enough for everyone's needs. In an ideal Communist society, people work not because they have to but because they want to and out of a sense of responsibility."

"Political differences
Socialism rejects a class-based society. But socialists believe that it is possible to make the transition from capitalism to socialism without a basic change in the character of the state. They hold this view because they do not think of the capitalist state as essentially an institution for the dictatorship of the capitalist class, but rather as a perfectly good piece of machinery which can be used in the interest of whichever class gets command of it. No need, then, for the working class in power to smash the old capitalist state apparatus and set up its own—the march to socialism can be made step by step within the framework of the democratic forms of the capitalist state. On the other hand, Communists believe that as soon as the working class and its allies are in a position to do so they must make a basic change in the character of the state; they must replace capitalist dictatorship over the working class with workers’ dictatorship over the capitalist class as the first step in the process by which the existence of capitalists as a class (but not as individuals) is ended and a classless society is eventually ushered in."

I really appreciate that you posted the difference between the two and the relations. I hope we can apply the information to modern accusations of "socialism" within our own government.

Keep in mind, even Romney and everyone on this list, believes in some sort of redistribution of wealth. We all pay taxes. So it then becomes important to consider something that I think Proud American said which was totally true, that these systems borrow from each other. Absolutely. They do, they always have. Our founding fathers borrowed. We should be learning and studying past governments and ideologies to always be coming up with a "more perfect union."

All good stuff. I like it. I disagree with a few points of a few of the copied and pasted excerpts, but that is the way with this subject.

Well, Erin, at least I cited reference for my excerpts.

And that is great! I thought we were really on to something here! Thanks for the info, as I did appreciate the read and especially the differentiation between socialism and communism which was a subject that I was hesitant to approach. CC's excerpts saying that socialism is a stepping stone to communism sounds very sketchy to me, and I think a lot of socialists would be highly offended by that, so that is just one portion that I disagree with. I cannot think of any actual historical evidence of an actual socialist community paving the way for an eventual communist community. Just because I can't think of it though does not mean that it does not exist.

For real, check out the Sunday night show on Free Talk Live. I don't agree with everything, but I love the platform that they set up, and they really handle calls very honestly and well. Wakes my brain up! :)

<<Erin Conners
8:39 am on Thursday, September 27, 2012

And that is great! I thought we were really on to something here! Thanks for the info, as I did appreciate the read and especially the differentiation between socialism and communism which was a subject that I was hesitant to approach. CC's excerpts saying that socialism is a stepping stone to communism sounds very sketchy to me...>>

Thats why "si' si" gives no cited reference. she just copies stuff, probably from fox or limbaugh. :-)

Indeed, it can become confusing.

Wow! Patch is pretty notorious for mispellings but that load of uncomprehensible gibberish may win a prize!

I forgot to put quotes around the excerpt. That is a message from Steven Singer, organizer of the Twitter Bomb protest.

so do we cry that this is the last day of the prank. 145,401 isn't actually a big number. There are UTube video's that get over a million hits in a day, and this prank has been going on for how long now?

That little bit of nastiness was totally unprovoked. This is one man who organized an online protest a few days before a court ruling. Youtube is national. The two are not even comparable unless you would like to talk about the quality of the videos that get over a million hits a day. Here are today's top youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/charts/videos_views?t=t

145,401 is a plenty big number, and you should congratulate Mr. Singer's efforts even if you do not agree with the cause...or just be miserable. Doesn't take a thing away from all of the hard work that guy has done for something that he truly believes in.

Our total for Day 4 - the final day of the Twitter bomb the courts campaign - is 176,484 people reached! Even more impressively, if we count repeated tweets, we get 394,935!

I am humbled by how much so many of you took to this crazy project. I had heard of Twitter bombs before but never even participated less than lead the charge.

Yes, as some of you noted, Twitter bombs have sometimes been used to spread lies and disinformation. In 2010, Iowa Conservatives used a Twitter bomb to smear U.S. Senate Candidate Martha Coakley who narrowly lost to Republican Scott Brown in a special election to fill Ted Kennedy’s seat. However, we used this same device for good. Instead of smearing anyone, instead of spreading lies and rumors, we told the truth. We showed that Twitter bombs are tools that in the words of Abby Normal (@RealSillyPutty) “this is not so much a twitter "bomb" as a legal, peaceful protest.”

So here’s how our impact breaks down:

Day 1: 10,791
Day 2: 26,101
Day 3: 139,737
Day 4: 176,484

Today Judge Robert Simpson concluded his hearing on Pennsylvania’s voter ID law. I expect we may have his decision tomorrow, but certainly no later than Oct. 2.

And tomorrow from 6-9 p.m. turn off your darn computer and visit with your families! ;)

Yours,

Steve

Erin, Your numbers are very low for how many people live in Pennsylvania that are registered Democrats. How many of the same people went and clicked on it a 100 times in a day just to bring the numbers up or made up names to join, isn't the the democratic way to make up names so they can vote more than one time. obama's accorn is very know, even in Pittsburgh for signing people up more than once to vote. They actually were found guilty, paid a fine and were put on probation for this act. Yet you all still claim that no one is voting more than once.

We need PHOTO ID to vote, because each American should only have ONE VOTE, but democrats think they are entitled to vote more than once. they listen to obama and his entitlement.

I'm not sure I'd characterize this as a "prank" but I can tell you my reaction if I were the receiving end of this twitter war. I won't take the time to read any of it, and would be pissed that my assistant would have to spend good time hitting the delete key. Now, an online petition signed by an equal number of people would catch my eye. One simple straight forward document presenting the concerns and the people that had signed on. Keep in mind the judges are busy people with a lot more responsiblities then reading 1,000's of twitters. Consider the audience.

Absolutely. Always consider your audience. But what you are failing to recognize is that another (and possibly primary) goal of this "twitter bomb" (I posted an email in which Singer comments on how that is a poor name as there is no "twitter war") is to trend on twitter. Meaning that the hashtag will show up. People can also search these hashtags. The goal is to increase the audience and spread the idea. Just the sole act of spreading an idea is never a wasted action.

Singer is well of aware of what he hopes to accomplish through this "twitter bomb." He has made multiple (I know of at least two bc I signed them) petitions, collected thousands of signatures, and has also protested in person at court houses.

Give this guy some credit. He knows what he is doing and why.

Also, as far as I know, there is no need to "delete" these tweets. It is not set up like a facebook page where you have a homepage that everyone can see. The court gets the info and sees the message, and the tag increases in popularity reaching more people through searches, etc. Nobody is paying their assistant to spend time deleting these "tweets." They are out there, they cannot be removed.

So, tell us Erin, if I check my Twitter account and find I was not "bombed," should be be offended? Should I start doing a search as to why I was left out? Or, if in the check I find the "bomb," should I be honored? If this be the case, should I start doing a search to find why I was in the list of addressees?

It is amusing how some get enamored with this silly stuff. This "bomb" is another case of quantity over substance, that is, somebody thinking they can capture their target with 140 characters. Is this the mentality of those charged with teaching in our public schools? Or, in any school system?

CC, you have pretty much said that every newspaper that disagrees with you is "dumocrat" and all of them rely on Snopes and FactChecker. You know that this is not true right? The best articles/blogs (can be good sources too) link where they have received their information. Judge quality based on those links.

I have been on this Free Talk Live kick lately (basically a show dedicated to whatever anyone wants to talk about with the hosts being "lovers of liberty" but often disagreeing w/ strictly libertarian ideology). The entire show is centered around calls, and it is amazing. People get heated occasionally, but articles are shared, calls are ended when the caller has nothing left to say, and anyone that calls is expected to have evidence or critical thought behind their view. It is really pretty cool.

snopes is owned by two democrats and have been known to postI false information, but the democrats use this as their bible because if it isn't on snopes then it must not be true. Erin I have been searching for newspapers, news stations that says that they use snopes.com for all their reliable information to cite, and yet I can not find one article that says they use them to verify stories.

"snopes is owned by two democrats and have been known to postI false information, but the democrats use this as their bible because if it isn't on snopes then it must not be true."

There is no basis for this cc. You seem to be one of those "it must be true because it's on the internet" people. You have yet to provide a shred of evidence to back any of your claims and now it seems you are starting to push rumor as truth.

I would like to ask Erin Faulk and the other Patch people on this site to seriously consider not allowing cc to continue posting.

Usually cc gives no evidence cite but when she does,she prefers fox news and True the Vote for her "unbiased" information:
<<<cc8:56 am on Wednesday, September 26, 2012
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/25/voter-watchdog-group-claims-to-have-uncovered-absentee-ballot-fraud-in-florida/ "A national voter fraud watchdog group announced Tuesday that it has uncovered...">>>

True the Vote is a small grassroots initiative spun out of a Houston, Texas-based Tea Party organization called King Street Patriots,backed mainly by Republican lawmakers.
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/27/true-vote/true-vote-says-eric-holder-supports-naacp-request-/

"Erin I have been searching for newspapers, news stations that says that they use snopes.com for all their reliable information to cite, and yet I can not find one article that says they use them to verify stories."

...Exactly?

"Usually cc gives no evidence cite but when she does,she prefers fox news and True the Vote for her "unbiased" information:"

Then everything cc posts should be considered opinion and not fact.

Ed m just like what you post has no barring on the truth either as you quote articles written by democrats and we know that they are all lies. same with ne12ukid and all of his other alias that post half articles that they like to print part of the article with other parts to make it look important but when you actually go read the article it isn't exactly the truth what they have copied and pasted.

Erin in the only one that has actually printed articles and how she interprets them

What article have I quoted cc? All democrats are not liars. Stating so is irresponsible. Your opinion is not fact cc. You have not backed up any claim you have posted with anything other than your opinion. Your claim about Snopes is totally baseless. You are not a reliable source of information, cc.

@Cindy... I wouldn't let the facts get in the way of the facts.

Ms. Cusic Micco,
Excellent link!
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/snopescom/
Sure debunks everything old cc claims too. Plus now we know where she got her "information"---another of those silly email hoaxes! LOL

I stopped giving any credibility to Snopes after I learned it was basically two people sitting at their kitchen table in their home writing the materials. They have no accountability to anybody, but have gained a reputation. Shopes seems to be another case that it garnered enough reputation to be considered useful, whether or not that be the case. Isn't technology in the news wonderful?

AS Mis Cusic Micco said: Anyone can post anything on the Internet and people can send around emails stating anything - truth or fiction.
The reader needs to look at the source and decide which ones are credible ... or not.
I am more impressed with websites that cite their sources.