Margaret every neighborhood has a neighbor like that. Most of my neighbors have fire pits and we get together, bring hotdogs, buns a bottle of catchup and mustard, marshmallows and get together with the neighbors and enjoy ourselves. We even invited the neighbor that calls the cops on our fire pits over but she never comes. There is no one getting drunk and I would say 90% of the time no beer either. Pots of coffee and hot choccie for the kids.

We have neighbors from hell on our street, I wouldn't be surprised if it was them that complained about the fire pits. We also have a fire pit but only use it a couple times a year, however, there are people behind us that have a fire pit and loud parties which don't bother us but I'm sure it bothered said neighbors.

Lynne fire pits are great but they are not meant to be burning things as your neighbors are doing. Their are laws in Allegheny County about what you can burn in your yard and trash isn't allowed to be burned on any property. If your afraid that they are going to set the woods around you then I would be getting in touch with your Borough or Township. Fire pits are a great way to spend time with family and friends but what your neighbors are doing is wrong.

Hey, Margaret:
Here's some food for thought.
http://www.familiesforcleanair.org/warm-weather-wood-burning-pollution-in-our-own-backyards/

Do you really think even neighbors you obviously don't like should be imprisoned in their homes because the cool people have a hobby that prevents her from being able to work in her own yard on nice evenings? Should she only get to come outside and sit on her porch when it rains and the air is finally cleared for a change?

nonfire pitts, the neighbor that I complained about never come outside, they jump in their car in the garage and take off. I don't think they opened their windows in the last 20 years and cannot remember the last time I seen them sit on their front or back porch to enjoy the weather. They get a landscaping company to come in every week to cut their grass, spray it with pesticides, that we have to breath in because we spend our summer out in the back yard in our pool and use our fire pit that is at the very back of the yard that we don't put more than 2 or 3 logs on at a time. If they put a ban of fire pits will gas grills and charcoal grills be next because you get the same pollution from them also.

No, cc, you DON’T get the same pollution from gas or charcoal grills as compared to wood-burning fire pits and chimineas!

I didn’t succeed in easily finding you a clear and concise comparison of the emissions, say in a nice chart. But use these two comparisons, please. You’re smart enough to extrapolate.

A layman’s comparison of charcoal vs. gas grilling regarding emissions released:
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2009/09/bbq-econundrum-charcoal-or-gas

Another comparison, this time wood vs. charcoal; this time a much more technical discussion of a third world problem, nonetheless illustrating the reality of comparing emissions released by wood burning vs. charcoal burning. Short review tip, go to page 4 of the document to find:

“We limit this analysis to suspended particulate emission … because of its causal association with respiratory
infection…”

…”The largest reduction of emission concentration
profiles is achieved through a transition from wood to
charcoal.”

http://www.cleancookstoves.org/resources_files/comparison-of-emissions-and.pdf

Feel free to dig further into this topic yourself. You will find ample evidence that gas burns cleaner than charcoal, and charcoal burns cleaner than wood. I hope you’ll come to understand that THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENCE in levels of neighborhood air pollution and its health impacts depending on what you and your neighbors choose to burn.

nonfire pits Excuse me but when you cook on charcoal grills they produce hydrocarbons and tiny soot particles that pollutes the air and this can aggravate heart and lung problems. While cooking meat on charcoal they can produce two kinds of potentially carcinogenic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons PAHs and heterocyclic animenes. HCAs. According to the American Cancer Society the PAHs rises when the fats from the meats drop on the hot charcoals and rises to get embedded into the meats. The hotter the temp of the charcoal and the longer you cook your meat the more HCA's attach to it and makes your meat very unhealthy to eat. These can pose human cancer risks. Cooking on charcoal also adds to air polution with using both briquettes and lumps of charcoal, they create greenhouse gases. I quit using charcoal grills back in the 70's when we had a natural gas grill installed in my back yard when I purchased my home. In Canada they have to put on all bags of Charcoal that you can get cancer from the product. The do not do this in the United States but should.

nonfire pits a propane gas grill used to cook can cause asphyxiant, which cuts off oxygen to the body. Being exposed to high levels of propaine can cause cardiac arrest, incapacitation, unconsciousness or seizures while cooking with it. Exposure to low levels of propane can cause damage to your central nervous system, lung congestion, fluid in the lungs, tunnel vision, hallucinations, dizziness lightheartedness, nausea, vomiting, headaches, numbness and tingling of arms and legs, rapid heat beats, confusion, poor judgement, memory loss, anorexia, nosebleeds, weight loss, skin irritation and discoloration, while using it to cook foods.

nonfire pits Using a natural gas grill is the most safest type of outdoor cooking as long as you have proper ventilation and the chances of getting sick is still there but not as much as using a charcoal or propane grill, The risk from a natural gas grill are carbon monoxide poisoning, but is safe when the grill is operating properly and proper ventilation.

I have a natural gas grill in my back yard which was first installed in 1978 and have replaced all of the parts on the grill many of times because nothing last forever. In fact we use our natural gas grill outside all year round. I also never have to worry about running out of charcoal or my propane tank running out.

nonfire pit The best wood to burn in a fire pit is seasoned wood, hickory, oak, maple, beech birch, and elms tops. If your worried about green gases you can use Eco Logs which are compressed logs made from dust created from hardwood floor manufacturing companies., which are inexpensive and comes in an 8 pack. you can also use presto-log types that you can purchase at the grocery store. Also when using your fire pit wood size does matter, use logs that fit inside the fire pit and are 4-6 inches away from the outside brim. Don't ever burn logs over the top of the fire pit either.
Don't burn pre-treated wood (these emit the toxins), railroad ties, (they are treated and contain carcinogens, painted or stained wood (toxic), green wood (because of extra smoke), don't burn garden waste, weeds, leaves and don't burn anything that causes black smoke. Don't burn barrel wood either (toxins).

Good job, cc. I appreciate all that information. Would, however, also appreciate citations/links to further look into source material. Can you provide them?

That said, I note that your focus is on your health in preparing and eating food in your backyard. My focus, however, is on not breathing in toxins from your activity in your backyard. You can elect to cook with the best fuel you see fit to use, controlling what gets into and on your food. But the way things stand with this burning situation, YOU are electing for ME what's in the air I breathe at MY home.

I commend you for learning about ways to keep your family safe on your own property. I am seeking ways to avoid illness from what you or other neighbors are doing in your backyard which comes over to my property and into my home.

This is a matter of where the burners' rights end and where my rights begin. At the property boundary seems logical, no? As smoke is a highly fugitive commodity, I submit that if you can keep your ground level smoke on your property and off/out of mine, we're good neighbors and we're both happy. If you can't, well, that's when an ordinance is needed.

I have a right to protection from known causes of illness to me when I'm on my own property, minding my own business.

nofire pitts, when you spay your yard for weeds why don't you keep that off of my property. I don't want these chemicals coming over on my property but yet they do. Also if you smoke cigarettes, please keep your second hand smoke off my property as we don't smoke at my home nor in my yard.

Charcoal and propane cause greengases

or anyone that does that is against fire pits then you can keep that smoke on your property too, as we have to breath second hand smoke. I do not make fires in my pit that that smoke other neighbors out. My fire pit is also at the very back of my yard, behind my swimming pool and far away from homes that they wouldn't get smoked out. When you light your charcoal grill or propane grill, they put green gases out there, so when your using your propane grill or charcoal grill please make sure that these gases don't come over onto my property too.

Gee, yet another article about neighborhoods being smoked out:

http://www.openfile.ca/calgary/story/backyard-fire-pitfalls-it-time-ban-wood-burning-calgary

I just bought a house in whitehall and we were thinking about throwing our first party around halloween and thought about doing a fire pit but i dont want to break any rules especailly since Im a newbie to the borough. Any update on this?

iluvtosing1982,

This should help you immensely: http://patch.com/A-vRCV.

Mr. Healy - Thank you for the link but I am not sure I know where to find it. I am a 30 years old soon to be newlywed (September 15) and this owning a house is a new thing for me. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much,

iluvtosing1982,

Check out Section 104.3 here: http://www.whitehallboro.org/whbCode/520175%20-%20Whitehall%20-%20Chapter%20104%20-%20Garbage,%20Rubbish%20and%20Refuse%20-%203-27-12.pdf.

Thank you for your help Mr. Healy.

I showed this article to my daughter and 3 friends that spend the night and they are going to call up the Whitehall Borough building on Monday and ask if they can repaint the Memorial and plant some flowers there. They said this would be a great Senior Class Project to do.

Paula and you made sense in what you wrote?

Soon you wont be allowed to use your fireplaces or gas drills. And since when can't you hang a clothes line and what ordinance are you exactly breaking.

Kristin ask the Boroughs and Townships why they have stupid ordinances about clothes lines, it is a stupid law if you ask me. They want us to use LED lights to save energy so why not save money on hanging clothes outside instead of using the dryer. Next they will be banning fire-pits and gas grills as we got people here that don't like them and think if you use them your having a wild party and everyone is getting drunk

Obviously, people need more education on wood smoke. Here's some, including an excerpt quoted from one of the articles available on the website: http://burningissues.org/car-www/medical_effects/fact-sheet.htm

"What we know about the dangers of tobacco smoke well applies to wood smoke. Wood smoke is chemically active in the body 40 times longer than tobacco smoke (Pryor). It is 12 times more carcinogenic than tobacco smoke (Lewtas) and lowers the body's defense mechanisms for fighting off infections. Just one hour of exposure can lower immune defense 25 to 40 percent (Zelikoff). (See burningissues.org for Fact Sheets, Wood Smoke/Tobacco Comparison charts and other backup material.)

In underdeveloped countries it is recognized that outdoor fires significantly shorten the average human life span. It seems foolish to consider wood fires as a lifestyle enhancement. Users of these devices are making an unfortunate health choice for the whole community. The perception is that these are perfectly legal and desirable lifestyle-enhancing devices.

[...]
Where is our common sense to step forward and educate the public about the dangers of wood smoke and ban gratuitous polluting devices?

The time to act is now. Educate your town council, your air district, your neighbors. Use the 35 megabytes of scientific information on our site for free by giving out the web site:
http://burningissues.org

That's ridiculous. That sounds like something my neighbor would do. My neighbor complained to me about the one across the street from her having one of those collapsible clotheslines on a pole. I am sure you know what I mean. She was saying they mustn't know about the the modern way of using a dryer. OMG Imagine. All they were doing was hanging their towels and bathing suits after coming home from Whitehall pool.

Margaret, that is nuts that they complained to you about a collapsible clothesline. I put my dress clothes in the dryer for 10 minutes then hang them on hangers and like to take them outside to finish drying. Since I wasn't allowed to finish putting up my clothes line, I strung a rope across my back porch and hang them on there. I love the smell of fresh air on my clothes and it does save so much on my electric bill and gas bill. Plus we do hang beach towels and bathing suits out there from the pool, who wants to drag wet towels though the house and downstairs to the dryer every hour during the summer. At night I gather all the towels and bathing suits up and wash them before I go to bed and hang them out early the next morning so they dry before the kids go in the pool. I keep a crate out on the back patio that is full of beach towels and have one with extra bathing suits that have been left here over the years and if someone comes to go swimming in the pool and doesn't have a suit, then they can find one in the crate that fits them. Could never understand why kids don't take their suits home but that is another story.

RM why would I be anti Fire Pit when I have one in the back of my yard. It is behind our pool and is nice coming out of the pool and sitting around the Fire Pit. If you see my post above I didn't complain about it only the neighbor who didn't like ours and called the police on us and we invited them over for hotdogs and marshmallows. Guess they didn't like we didn't have gram crackers to go with the marshmallow's, so they called the cops on us.

John we have a street party every year on our street, the one that complains about the fire pit never comes, but tries to drive up and down the street all day even though they know were having our street party 3 months prior. She comes and goes every half hour and isn't gone more than 15 minutes each trip when she is blowing her horn yelling at us for blocking the street. We do get permission from Whitehall to have our Street Party too and we are only block the dead end part but she has to come down there and turn around.

Oh, gee. Of fire pits and schools. Of morons who are everywhere. Next thing you know, municipalities have to have ordinances! Oh, THE TYRANNY OF IT ALL! BIG GOVERNMENT OVERREACH! BLAH BLAH BLAH!

http://bellevuefirerescue.us/history.html?view=1&id=116873

non fire pitts, did you see what they were burning in the fire pits to make all that smoke that went over to the schools, I didn't think so. They were not burning one or 2 logs, they were burning trash, leaves, and things that caused black smoke. Most people have more common sense then these people did. And yes there is morons everywhere.

Oh, cc, you DID see what the morons were burning then. Thanks for letting us know.

no nonfire pitts I didn't see what they were burning in their fire pit but I did watch the news on this and they said that they were burning trash and other things that caused the black smoke that went over in the school. Allegheny County has laws as to what you can burn and not burn and logs in a fire pit aren't one of them. Nor is burning logs in your fireplace inside your home against Allegheny County ordinances.

Jean-I think you are right. The one complaining here never has anyone over to their house and none of the neighbors here like them. (because they have called the boro or police on everyone at one time or another)

Margaret No my neighbor called the cops on us for trying to put 2 clothes poles in the back yard. It wasn't going to hurt anyone and it wasn't like I was going to hang out laundry every day. I just don't like to dry clothes in the dryer for more than 10 minutes to get some of the dampness out of them then hang on hangers and put outside to finish drying in the spring, summer and early fall. Another neighbor put one up but she called the police and they had to take theirs down. I have a covered Patio so on the 2 sides I strung a rope and hang my clothes up there on hangers until they are dried and then take them inside. I also use it for towels and bathsuits from the pool. My neighbor always makes the comments over the fence about the clothes hanging off the porch and how it is bring down the value of homes in the neighborhood.

You can purchase a straight piece of PCV Tube that is an inch wide and 10 feet long and cut a V on one end of the tube on both sides, then cut it how long you want it then you got a clothes pole. It cost me less than 5 to make a clothes pole and a keyhole knife or ginzu knife cuts the tubbing easy and it doesn't have to be that accurate, just enough to get the rope to lay in there so it hold the rope up.

South Park is another community that doesn't allow you to have Clothes Lines unless you can sneak one in before one of your neighbors reports you. Anna, I didn't know that we weren't allowed to have clothes lines till my neighbor wanted to know what we were putting in right after we moved in. We also didn't know she was the trouble maker on the street and called the cops on everyone. 10 minutes after we told her that we were putting up a clothes line we had a officer walk into the back yard and tell us that they were not permitted.
A dryer actually ruins your clothes and hanging them up on a line is best and like you I use the dryer for no more than 10 minutes before they are on hangers and outside on a line. Towels, underclothes, bedding does go in the dryer as these aren't terrible expensive to replace. But when you spend money on good dress clothes you don't want them ruined in a dryer. They might be outside for no more than 2 hours on a Saturday or Sunday morning, during the warm weather.

Baldwin Guy, Don't understand why the people are that way, always calling the police on everyone. I think I'll stick with Whitehall as the house is perfect for when my children are all gone and I'm all on one floor.

"Bomb fires"? Was this in Afghanistan, cc?

Do the schools have those on any given night of the week? Without advance notice to the community? Do the schools have those throughout the week, any week, all week, from March through November?

nofire pitts, i'll vote for both fire pits and clothes lines any day. They are so nice to have in the back yard, they bring families and neighbors together to enjoy a chilly evening. If fire pits are so bad, why would they let schools have bonfires, they are twice as bad??????

This is an article from Canada.

Yeah, Canada, not Mars. Atmospheric conditions are similar in Canada. Lots of humans live there, too.

Your point is irrelevant, Margaret. You're talking about one specific neighbor that you don't like. Wood smoke is traveling to the next backyard and to the next one, too. I can't even see where the fire IS that bothers me. The wind blows the smoke to me, into my window if it's open, and I have headaches and feel miserable! I am trapped inside my home when I want to work in my yard. If I already started working in my yard I have to quit and hurry inside, never mind that my tools are spread all over the ground.

If you're not sensitive to the smoke, maybe it smells good to you. Fact is, if YOU can SMELL the smoke I am already getting a headache and sore throat from it!

If you can keep the smoke on your own property, fine. Have at it.

nofire pitts why is Margarets point irrelevant? her neighbor is never outside and yet she makes a complaint. My neighbors that live around me all have fire pits except for 1 home and this person is never outside but loves to call the police on everyone all the time. She calls the police if a child is riding their bike on the street and if a car is coming and the child pulls in her driveway, you can expect the police to be there within a half hour about the complaint of a child in her driveway.

I don't know any of my neighbors that use their fire pits in the day that would stop you from doing your gardening and you leaving tools over your yard. My neighbors use their pits at night, when it gets cooler at night. I can't see anyone using a fire pit when it is in the 90's and the heat index is up over 100 and sitting by them to keep warm.

cc, couldn't I just as easily dictate to you that you must use your fire pit in the heat of the day, because I prefer to do my yardwork when it's cooler in the evening?

....not to mention the fact that my favorite time to sit out on the porch is late at night - unless I CAN'T because I'm getting a sore throat and headache from lingering wood smoke. It doesn't dissipate until the sun comes back out the next morning. If you live down in a valley under the wood burners, YOU ARE REALLY SCREWED since the cooling emissions sink lower into the valley as the temperature falls. In western PA we have what's called "air basins." Certain atmospheric conditions will sometimes keep pollution trapped for days in our basins. No doubt you've heard the term "Air Quality Action Day." Sadly, the nitwits with fire pits close to me just keep right on burning their fuming wood anyway, despite it being all over the news.

nofire pitts, I watch the news and never once have I seen them say on there not to burn a fire pit at night when were having an "Air Quality Action Day." I never heard of a "Air Quality Action Night" either. You can't convince me not to burn my fire pit when I choose to do it, It is my home, my property and I will burn it when I choose, not when some neighbor is whining, makes me want to use it more. And if you do watch the NEWS, if you are ASMATIC they tell you to stay in on "AIR QUALITY ACTION DAYS," as these days are not good for people that are sick, have asthma, etc. So do you wear a hardhat when it is pitch black out to do your gardening. Wouldn't that make it hard for you to find tools when it is pitch black out and you might forget one laying in the yard.

Well, Jean, let’s see…….

If we can’t rely on our powers of reason, we can investigate to find something in print to show you. Ahah…..

http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/pennsylvania/f/ozone_action.htm

“Air Quality Action Days are basically the new, improved version of Ozone Action Days. An Air Quality Action Day alert is issued when ozone concentrations, particulate matter, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide and nitrogen dioxide reach unhealthy levels.”

[…]

“Some tips to follow during high ozone days include the following:
• Refuel vehicles after dark. Avoid spilling gasoline and stop fueling when the pump shuts off automatically.
• Conserve energy. Don’t overcool homes. Turn off lights and appliances that are not in use. Wash clothes and dishes only in full loads.
• Limit daytime driving. Consider carpooling or taking public transportation. Properly maintain vehicles, which also helps to save fuel.
• Limit outdoor activities such as mowing the lawn or sports to the evening hours.
• Avoid burning leaves, trash and other materials.”
--------------------------------------
Might we logically add burning wood in your fire pit to the “other materials” to “avoid burning” category? You know, considering that it releases benzene, particulate matter and lots of other nice stuff into the already polluted air?

----

Jean says, “So do you wear a hardhat…?”

No. But, generally, I think condoms are a pretty good idea.

;-)

No Margaret I didn't get a note in my door today as we are out in the back yard all day swimming. I'm talking about a lady and her husband is just as bad as her. I do plan on going to the meeting also on the 17 and hope to meet you there. I would get a note from your doctors about their chemicals being sprayed if you have asthma, as those yard sprays can do major damage to your lungs. My Shar-Pei is allergic to them and I get notice 24 hours before they spray so that I can take her to a friends house for 48 hours, that is how long the vet advises us to keep her away when they spray. They didn't like when they were forced to pay for my dogs vets bills when we could prove her allergies came from the chemicals that were spayed on the yard. We dig dandelions out of the yard the old fashion way, as I have to watch all chemicals that are sprayed and my other neighbors use the pellets that they throw in the yard, but these ones don't like the pellets and only will use the sprays to kill weeds. Fire pits don't bother me at all, as most of our neighbor use them and it is nice seeing families out in the back yard enjoying themselves. There isn't many families that do things together anymore.

When you use your dryer and it is blowing over on my property and I have to smell it, shouldn't I call the police as carbon monoxide is being spread all over my property. Same as the furnace that are use in the winter, should I not call the cops when they are using this because once again carbon monoxide comes over on my property. Should Whitehall ban all vehicles because Carbon Monoxide, Nitrogen dioxide, Sulphur dioxide, Suspended particles including PM-10, particles less than 10 microns in size, Benzene, Formaldehyde, Polycyclic hydrocarbons all come out of the exhaust system and is poisoning the air that I breath, shouldn't we all make a complaint at Whitehall borough meeting about these green gases that come from things that are used every day. I did print all of this information out from the EPA to take to the meeting. nofire pitts I hope that you don't, use a furnace or a dryer or drive a vehicle because you are poisoning the air that I have to breath.

nofire pitts, I didn't spend 5,000 on a fire pit to use cans of Souther Enterprises Fire Glo Gel Fuel (16-pack), I would have to spend $157 and tax on a 4 Can Outdoor Log Set by Real Flame by Jensen, which puts no heat out (which was the purpose of the fire pit) in the first place. I can't cook off these 4 cans either as we do, you cant throw a grill grate on top and cook food at all. With using a fire pit with seasoned wood you get the most awesome tasting food, better than cooking on a gas, charcoal or propane grill. We enjoy our fire pits in the summer especially after getting out of the swimming pool, as we had guest over last night, enjoyed swimming till midnight and sitting around the fire pit, cooking. With what you suggested with these Southern Enterprises Fire Glo Gel Fuel (16-Pack), since there isn't any heat off them and can't cook on them, we all would of been in the house sitting around the fireplace in the game room. Instead of running inside and out, we all enjoy the fire pit.

If you can afford to spend $5000 on a fire pit, the cost of cleaner burning fuel is change in the bucket, cc.

Do you know for a fact that the gel fuels don't throw heat? Just asking. I don't know.

If it's warm enough to swim in your pool, however, why do you need heat from your fire pit? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Gee, I'll bet you can afford a big thick towel to wrap up in, huh? Citronella candles were good enough for decades, but then the Joneses had to get a great big fuming fire pit for the Smiths to keep up with.

Gee, you have a great lifestyle for everybody in the neighborhood to pay for with their health. You get to jump out of your pool and roast a marshmallow while the kid down the street is coughing and choking with his asthma attack. Nice!

nonfire pitts, i didn't put in a fire place to burn fake things, i built it to burn logs in as the fire place that is in my gameroom. My neighbor has tried those cans that you are promoting and she is always asking others if they want the cans as they defeat the purpose of a fire pit, as she wasted money on them. Since we have a heated pool and the water is warm at night, when you get out it gets chilly and we sit around the fire pit. We also don't put more than 3 logs on there and do not get a bonfire from it, we put enough wood on there to burn for 2-3 hours and the embers in the bottom are out before we go in the house for the night. We also have think towels in containers to use but there is nothing like sitting around a fire pit enjoying the outdoors. I'm sure at the borough meeting is going to be full of people that have fire pits as my neighbors also plan on being at the meeting. There also will be a few that are against them there and we will have to wait for the meeting to see what the outcome is, and I don't see them getting rid of fire pits at all.

The people who call the borough on every darn thing... I wonder what they really think of them up there. They must think they are a pain in the butt. Just the other day my neighbor drove down the street to see what was going on at my other neighbor's house. She probably wanted to see if they had a building permit so that she could call the borough if they didn't. Her and her husband both regularly drive up and down to see who they can call on. (this is a dead end street so I know that is what they do since they live at the top)

Margaret I agree there, that they have to know what is going on with everyone in the neighborhood yet they won't speak to anyone. They always are standing by their drapes in the house (naturally shut and spying out of them), just as their windows haven't been opened in 20 years. They haven't had porch furniture on either of their porches in 20 years but now all of a sudden they can't sit outside and they still haven't put any porch furniture out there to sit on. I know, there going to move their couch outside when they want to sit out there.

I will look for you at the meeting Margaret.and look forward to meeting you. People don't understand the balance of nature and how damaging spraying chemicals in the yards are hurting the environment. I know if I find a spider in my home I will take it outside instead of killing it as they are there to eat buts. I don't even see many bee's around anymore to pollinate the flowers growing in my yard and seems like less and less bloom every year. , but when people spray chemicals then that is what happens.

I couldn't agree with you more on the use of lawn & garden chemicals!

Margaret, she also sounds like my neighbor, maybe those two are related and are on a mission to get rid of all Fire Pits, clothes lines and anything else that bothers them that their neighbors do. My neighbor have tried those fake things in their fire pits and they are a joke to burn as there isn't anything like the smell of a roaring fige going as in either a fire place or fire pit. My neighbor Nancy can't even give those fake Southern Enterprises Fire Glo Gel Fuel (16-pack) or what every brand she has away cause no one wants to use something fake in their fire pits or fire places. It was funny the one time that she ran in the house before we left so that she could give all of us neighbors a can of the fake fire glo gel fuel. Have to ask Nancy the next time I see her if that fake glo gel fuel will get a fire pit going instead of lining the fire pit with a layer of newspaper and kindling to get it started then putting logs on top. Maybe expert nofire pitts has an answer for us on this matter.

Well, cc, you're right: "there isn't anything like the smell of a roaring fige going as in either a fire place or fire pit."

Especially when you're sitting inside your own living room and that wonderful smell is coming in through your upstairs bathroom window that you forgot to close, because your kind neighbors are sending you the gift of wood smoke yet again! Yep, there's NOTHING LIKE IT! How grand to start having allergic reactions from the wood burning down the street because you forgot to shut the freaking bathroom window!

Regarding the "fake glo gel fuel," I have never used any. I don't have a fire pit. But if I did I'll bet I could read the label.

When you use your dryer and it is blowing over on my property and I have to smell it, shouldn't I call the police as carbon monoxide is being spread all over my property. Same as the furnace that are use in the winter, should I not call the cops when they are using this because once again carbon monoxide comes over on my property. Should Whitehall ban all vehicles because Carbon Monoxide, Nitrogen dioxide, Sulphur dioxide, Suspended particles including PM-10, particles less than 10 microns in size, Benzene, Formaldehyde, Polycyclic hydrocarbons all come out of the exhaust system and is poisoning the air that I breath, shouldn't we all make a complaint at Whitehall borough meeting about these green gases that come from things that are used every day. I did print all of this information out from the EPA to take to the meeting. nofire pitts I hope that you don't, use a furnace or a dryer or drive a vehicle because you are poisoning the air that I have to breath.

Margaret French - You should know by now that in the new US, the majority no longer rules. All you need is one complaint and that is the law of the land. If the smoke from the fire pit entered their homes, I would bet the 70 percent number would not hold out.

No matter where you live, someone always has a neighbor that calls the police for the most dumbest things. Kids riding bikes on the street and going in your driveway, putting a clothes line in, using fire pits, parking to far from the curb on your street, walking on the Cherryvale Path, have a street party, the list goes on and on. Our street enjoys getting together, but it always seems like one neighbor always wants to ruin it for us. It is also nice seeing neighbors out at their fire pit enjoying themselves. When both parents work, kids are either in daycare or school and then with everything you have to do after work and on the weekends these fire pits give families a chance to enjoy each others company. it isn't like they use them 7 nights a week. I know we use our on the average of once or twice a week.

So you use yours once or twice a week, Fred uses his once or twice a week, Janie likes at least four or five fires a week... On a street with fifteen houses, say only 70 percent have fire pits, which they all use "once or twice a week," or more, then I ask you, WHEN do the people with health issues pertaining to wood smoke get to come outside and enjoy some fresh air on THEIR property?

Maybe the family down the street has a child with asthma or a grandma on oxygen. Do they ever get to swim in their pool? Does grandma ever get to sit out on her porch just to look at the stars and hear the crickets anymore?

NO! They have to worry every freaking night about whether or not you or somebody else or somebody yet again is going to light up AGAIN! This is the way I have to live. There are LOTS OF US who are tired of remaining silent while shut inside of our own houses every freaking night, imprisoned by your neighborhood wood smoke!

nofire pitts since everything bothers you then why don't you move to the country where you have no neighbors and what they do won't bother you. Or go build yourself a glass bubble to live in, that way nothing can get in or out.

I agree with Jean, go build a glass bubble to live in that way nothing will bother you and you'll be able to spy on everyone from there.

You hit the nail on the head...Did you happen to see the news segment on "Good Morning America", a couple months ago? They said that the chemicals that are used to make those pretty smells in the softener sheets, are now proven to cause cancer. Not only from wearing the clothes & it going through the skin, but they said that when the dryer heats up those chemicals, a person will be affected if they breath them in from outside. So I guess your body is smart & is trying to tell you something.

Margaret I agree with you about the chemicals and know nofire pitts isn't my neighbor as she lives at the top of the hill and complains. I have been looking into starting a bee colony in my yard since I have the room and as long as you don't bother the bee's their isn't a chance of you being stung. My best friend started one at her home in South Park and their hasn't been a neighbor stung in the 3 years that she's been doing it. Fresh honey straight out of the combs is the best. Wonder how my neighbor would like that.

Yes I know i'm not allowed to have a bee colony here but I might borrow some bees from her to bring home to fly around the neighborhood and hopefully they will build a nest somewhere.

Why are your links to Canadian articles?

That's the beauty of these here internet tubes. We can learn from folks all over the world, especially in matters of science! See, that's why the medical community uses Latin terminology: it's an unchanging universal language. For millennia smart people have tried to be logical and consistent in comparing factual information, disallowing for personal antipathies or local quirks. We live in a wonderfully communicative technological world, as our current online conversation exemplifies! Yay for science and factual information!

If you prefer something more local, Margaret, well how about this topical report from TODAY, right down on the Monongahela River?

"Athletes, Elderly, Children Especially Prone to Soot's Harmful Effects"

http://www.essentialpublicradio.org/story/2012-07-16/local-organizations-say-epa-should-raise-quality-reducing-soot-11787

EXCERPT FROM THE LOCAL ARTICLE:
“ ‘The particular[sic*] matter we’re talking about is microscopic. It’s smaller than the human body has a way to protect itself from,” Bogi said. “It goes right into your lungs and your bloodstream and the smallest stuff goes, they’re thinking, straight through your nasal passages into your brain.’

According to the Clean Air Task Force, Pennsylvania harbors 6,437 tons of PM2.5 a year, and Allegheny County collects 485 tons of PM2.5 each year.

Olivia Sobkowiak, 10, of Girls on the Run, said that lower amounts of air pollution can encourage children to get outside and be active.

‘More of the kids are going to start getting even more overweight and more unhealthy,’ Sobkowiak said, ‘so, if we stop this air pollution more of the kids are going to stop being so overweight and more healthy and going outside.’ ”
-----------------------
* [ I believe the speaker, Mr. Bogi, probably said "particulate", as in "particulate matter" - edit, nofire]

yes non fire pitts why the Canadian articles, can't you find one from the UNITED STATES. Nope after they fight about the fire pits then they will start on the kids playing in the streets and a ball going on their property. I know exactly why they never get company, no one wants to hear them whine.

Robert the editor of the Patch has rules about copying an article and pasting it on here so unless you put it in your own words, then I won't read it. Were not suppose to be copying anything.

so non pits delete article and then write it in your own words then i'll be more than happy to read what you wrote.

Excerpts are OK with proper credit and links.

Oh, I live close to you, dear...too close...as the crow flies...or in this case, as the wind blows.

Oh, I like this part: "I bet you are really a boring arrogant person." lololol!

Can't counter the argument, so attempt to discredit the person, right? A time-honored tactic. It's called ad hominem attack.

nofire pitts you haven't proven anything in what you have said over the last few days on here other than your a cop caller and want all your neighbors conform to your rules. Sorry your the minority and personally don't care what you think. If your so worried about what your neighbors are burning then why don't you start supplying them with a fire place holder that they can burn those gel garbage things in. Or move somewhere where you don't have no neighbors. No wonder why you never company or relatives at your house.

I do live close to Caste Village and we probably live real close to each other. I couldn't tell you the last time they had someone visit their home. Other than seeing the mailman go there and drop off mail, there is no one that goes there. He has been yelled at her also when he walked across her grass to deliver the mail when she was running the sprinklers on her walkway and he didn't want to get wet. He asked her if she wants to start to pick her mail up at the post office and didn't deliver it to her that day and walked away. He has had many of problems with her

Margaret I hope they don't pass this silly ordinance and your able to get a fire pit. They are wonderful to invite neighbors and family over to sit around. My kids love bring their friends over when we have ours going and they say that they wish their parents did things like this with them.

I agree Margaret it would be great for her when she isn't in her glass bubble.

Margaret I can still get a lion, tiger, black panther and a monkey since these aren't listed. LOL i'm kidding there but I was just reading about bee colonies and didn't even check the ordinance yet for Whitehall, thanks for letting me know about bee's. I might make a suggestion up at the meeting about them putting in a Bee Colony up by the borough building because of the lack of bees in the area. There are ton's of wasp but no bees anymore and this is a problem for the farmers also.

There are ways to attack bees to the area and we do need them in the area. Started reading articles on ways to Attract Bees To The Area and going to follow some of their suggestions. I'm going to buy some birdbaths and have a pond put in the yard now. Attract Bees to your Backyard http://sagebug.com/howto/bees.html. I'm also going to order some California Gilia, Blue Mist, California Poppy and Bog Sage as these seem to attract the most bees.

Margaret, you can leave a note on that reader's "wall," but anyone who clicks on that reader's name will be able to see your message. Example: http://baldwin-whitehall.patch.com/users/margaret-french.

not sure how you put mail in the mailbox wrong, but people like them are so anal that they complain about everything. Wonder what would happen if someone put a stamp on upside down and sent a letter to them that way, she would be on the phone for hours complaining to customer support and then calling in 1000 times to make sure it never happens again

I'm sure she has one of those cams on her house so that she can watch what the neighbors are doing and don't blame you for wanting to get one either. If you have a stinkbug trap then they will get rid of all the stink bugs around, she should be thanking you that your trapping them instead of stealing yours. I bet the one that was stolen is hanging somewhere in her yard.

Your lucky you have bees there, all I see is wasp in my yard anymore because of the chemicals that she has sprayed in her yard. I'm going to order flowers that bring bees to the yard and then will go get some from my friend that has a bee colony at her place in South Park.

My daughter has about 15 friends coming today to go swimming and been cooking all morning to feed them while they are swimming. I even got the fire pit ready for later tonight for them to use, along with hot dogs, buns, marshmallows, gram crackers and chocolate for tonight. She will be out in the back yard though being as nasty as every yelling things over to them. I am going to leave the cam cord outside for them to use for this purpose and might take the film over to the meeting tomorrow night if she starts on them about the fire pit being used tonight.

Come on over and relax at the pool. When I see you tomorrow I'll give you my address and number. We were here 4 years before we put the pool in as we did the inside of the house first as it needed a new kitchen, remodeled the bathrooms and put an family room with fire place on our home. Then came the pool and the neighbors that never spoke to you would walk over and introduce themselves and they naturally have their bathing suits on in hopes that you would invite them to go swimming. My neighbors know that when I'm home they can use the pool as long as they ask and I'm not having company over but do lock the gate when we leave. I enjoy spending time with the neighbors that don't take advantage of you. Now if I could just get them to take home all the beach towels that I have collected over the years it would be wonderful.

I might make a facebook page where people can write about their neighbors and the stupid things they do, nofire pitts will be the first one on there

shouldn't be against the rules as they aren't listed in Whitehall's ordinances, but they are great to get rid of bugs. Can always say it is a bird house.

Why would she want to park in your driveway on fireworks night that just blew me away. They get no visitors yet don't have room to park in their own driveway. Mine had the nerve to yell over to the kids in the pool today and asked them if they could give her a couple of tomatoes. The one girl picked a few of the ones that were on the ground and half rotted and walked over and put them in her hand. She wasn't a happy camper after that and dropped them on the ground in my yard. I sat on the porch laughing like crazy as I worked from home today.

Sorry Margaret I misunderstood you about who wanted to park in your driveway. I parked 3 of our cars in front of the house today and then I had 4 open spots in the driveway for relatives that came over for fireworks. Our street is always filled by 5 pm with cars for the fireworks and they never get there till around 7 and they have to have somewhere to park. This is the only day of the year that our cars actually do park on the street because of how close we are to fireworks.

Margaret she was so upset when she was handed rotten tomatoes, like their friends don't know what goes on with her as she yells at them for making to much noise in the pool and it is going over in her yard. Next they will be making an ordinance for them that your not allowed to talk or have fun in your yard or play on the streets.

Not sure there, I know i'm going as long as I don't run into a problem with my business and get called into the office like I was tonight.

Are you an idiot, nofire pits.

what on earth are you talking about?

Love Connection aka nofire pitts- I already have myself a man. One is enough. cc and I are both straight women who are just friendly neighbors... something you wouldn't know about. Please stick to the subject of the thread= fire pits.

Sorry, but I am not connected to "LoveConnection." Don't know why you'd think so...

By all means, ladies, talk amongst yourselves...

Back in the 80's they didn't allow for clothes lines in Whitehall, when an officer told you to stop putting it in because a neighbor complained.

Our pleasure.

Nothing about fire pits at all tonight. It was great meeting you, too.

Yes I was there and took off during the meeting as I had an issue come up at work with an employee having to go to the hospital, she went into early labor, and still haven't heard anything on the baby yet. I did talk to one of the council members before the meeting and he said they probably wouldn't be discussing them unless someone complained there and I didn't see my neighbor there. Did your neighbor show up at all. I was going to try to find you after the meeting.

Margaret, I get cord wood delivered to my house for my fireplace and use it for my fire pit. I like to burn walnut or oak, as their is less smoke from these.
Not sure if Robert will take this down but this is who I call when I need firewood.
Dean Thomas Tree Service
Pittsburgh, PA 15236
(412) 655-8844

Sue my employee had a baby girl 5lb 6 oz born 7 around 6 am Tuesday.

Nothing wrong with that one :)

Margaret never seen them before but that is such a great idea for kids. I am going to order one for my grandson.

Sue was 7 weeks early and glad they are fine. When is your daughters due date.

The wood at Lowe's and Home Depot that they sell are good for pits and wouldn't use the compress wood. I just crunch up newspapers and kindling and put in the bottom of the pit, get that going and put logs on top. We collect kindling on our walks out in South Park and add it to the pile that we have out by the pit.

Hope she has an easy delivery and congrats

Sue was due Sept 5th and had a healthy baby girl and i''ll keep you and your family in my prayers.

Baby can be pressing on her bladder and glad her water didn't break.

I want to thank you for your comment. It's amazing how many people feel that they can do whatever they please, without any concern about the laws or their neighbors.
I do want to add though, that most of our neighbors look out for one another, & are very conscientious.

My neighbors have fire pits and never seen one do as your neighbor has done. My neighbors use them the correct way and don't burn garbage in them. Have you considered filming them and sending a copy to Allegheny County Health Department along with your neighbors name and address.
Fire Pit Rules from Allegheny County Health Dept

Only dry, clean wood may be burned, not any garbage or debris.

The fire must be at least 10 feet away from the nearest structure, inhabited area, roadway or property line. Under certain circumstances, the distance may have to be greater to prevent smoke and odor emissions from creating a public nuisance.

The fire must be tended at all times.

Health officials suggest that people also check with their municipality to see whether any local ordinances may prohibit or regulate the use of outdoor wood burning units in their community.

Complaints about excessive smoke and odor emissions from such equipment may be reported to the Health Department by calling 412-687-ACHD.

http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/news/2007/271005.asp

Allegheny County Health Department won't do anything unless people are breaking the law like Lynne S neighbors are doing. The county has rules set up for burning in fire pits.
Fire Pit Rules from Allegheny County Health Dept
Only dry, clean wood may be burned, not any garbage or debris.
The fire must be at least 10 feet away from the nearest structure, inhabited area, roadway or property line. Under certain circumstances, the distance may have to be greater to prevent smoke and odor emissions from creating a public nuisance.
The fire must be tended at all times.
Health officials suggest that people also check with their municipality to see whether any local ordinances may prohibit or regulate the use of outdoor wood burning units in their community.
Complaints about excessive smoke and odor emissions from such equipment may be reported to the Health Department by calling 412-687-ACHD.
http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/news/2007/271005.asp

No one showed up at Whitehall Borough meeting to make a complaint about fire pits in July. I can see Lynne S showing up for how her neighbors are illegally burning but when one uses them correctly there shouldn't be any complaints.

Lynne there is only one spoiled person on here that wants fire pits gone. We use ours all the time as our neighbors do but we don't burn all our trash in them. I just had delivered 2 cords of firewood for the fireplace and for the fire pit. Most we ever put in there is 4-5 logs. It is a nice way to get away from the tv and enjoy being in the out doors.