I think this is a great idea. Would business owners rather pay for a brand new door and frame after emergency personnel had to break it in order to access their building, or pay a small price for a system that will advoid that? Great job on getting this approved!

Thanks Baldwin Borough, I now see you pushing more business out of the community if they mandate companies use lock boxes aka knox boxes on their businesses. Now business will have to put cameras on their buildings to make sure that the police don't enter their business illegally, as in a case in New Jersey. Where the police entered a business illegally though the key for their business that were kept in a knox box and did an illegal search. 3 days later the owner of the business was served a warrant for a search and was arrested. At leas the business owner was smart enough and had a camera installed on the business when he had the knox box installed and has a video where the police entered the building illegally 3 night before a warrant was served. He was arrested and fought this in court, and the whole case was tossed out. Sorry but if I had a business in Baldwin, I definitely would be moving it, as these lock boxes aka knox boxes are against my 4th Amendment Rights. I would rather them break my door down and let me turn it into my insurance company then allow them to go into my place of business whenever they choose.

Amen cc. I agree with you. Then what next, our homes too.???

As a point of clarification, folks, Baldwin officials have the authority to implement a lock box system on area businesses, but there are no plans to actually begin doing so yet.

M.A.M. Your an idiot as you say I don't know anything about Knox Boxes, when in FACT I DO KNOW A LOT ABOUT THEM. I don't care if your a fireman either as those KNOX BOXES have been broken into. keys. In New Jersey, Police use a Knox Box to gain entrance to a business and do a search. Three days later the police served a warrant for a search and they took evidence and the person was arrested. The guy won the case as he had camera's set up on his place of business and the first time they went in ILLEGALLY and the guy filed a law suit against the City and officers. He won over a 5 million dollars from them because of your lovely knox box and illegal search. If you need to get into my business, break my front door down and my insurance will pay for the door. Good luck with the 2 Shepherds that have free roam of the building also.

http://www.diamondbackonline.com/news/knox-box-apartments-burglarized-in-recent-weeks-1.2633193#.UAcr_JT3svg Knox Box apartments burglarized in recent weeks "This is from the article "After 4 or 5 Knox Boxes were broken into during the past two weeks" Go read the article on these so called KNOX BOXES being broken into.

M.A.M. here is another article http://www.king5.com/home/Thieves-Targeting-Emergency-Lock-Boxes--116198379.html Break-ins mean emergency lock boxes are no secret anymore
"At least two arrest have been made in Bellevue where locked key boxes monuted to apartment building have been broken into, allowing thieves inside."

http://www.superiortelegram.com/event/article/id/50527/ Knox box law gets further review Someone wanted to know if they could inspect buildings with keys from Knox Box, but according to the article "One building was entered for an inspection from keys from the Knox Box and the firefighters that did it were talked too and it won't happen again.. AGAIN SOMETHING ILLEGAL, against the business owner, an illegal inspection against the business owners 4th Amendment Rights.

M.A.M. you said "@cc and @Margaret French... you two are FOOLS!!!! you know NOTHING about this KNOX BOX system.. It seems to me you two are too worried about constitutional rights rather than public safety!"
Your darn right I am worried about my Constitutional rights! What will be next... give them an inch and they take a mile. And FYI- I wasn't at the meeting because I do not live in Baldwin and do not own a business in Baldwin. I put my two cents in because I care about everyone's rights. Before you know it then Whitehall will want to do it "because it is done in Baldwin". Get the idea? cc and I are not the fools.

In Joplin during a tornado a Fire Fighter is charged with stealing stuff from a Home Depot where he gained entry from using a key to a Knox Box. A Police officer in Garden City, Michigan used the key for a knox box to enter a liquor store and steel booze. A fire crew from Garner, Kansas stole keys from a KNOX BOX to steal guns from a Police Academy.

Yes I will take my chance with having 2 Shepards inside my business at night, security camera's on the building that I can access from my cell phone or computer at home, then trust firemen and police with my keys for the business. Break my door down as that is why I pay for insurance premiums for every year. I'll take my own chances with my building.

Margaret this M.A.M. is a total idiot if you ask me. These boxes that they say are so safe have been broken into. Police have done illegal searches with the keys, fire dept robs a home depot with a key from a knox box during a tornadoduring a tornado, police stealing booze from a liquor store that he had access to the knox box, but he has the nerve to call us fools. Thank goodness that my business isn't even in Allegheny County, especially Baldwin where they have ignorant people as firemen.

I own the property that my business is in and never in 18 years had a police officer, fire dept or EMS try to get into the building at night. PLUS THESE IDIOT FOOLS WILL NEVER GET ME TO PUT A KNOX BOX ON THE BUILDING AND TAKE AWAY MY 4TH AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

Give an inch and some will take a mile - True
Maybe your newly hired 1600? cross trained IRS agents will become the ones to install the Knox Boxes in our HOMES! 1984 aside... Knox Boxes maybe undo enforcement in some circumstances. However in some cases even ONE saved LIFE is PRICELESS and can't be replaced with insurance. Insurance companies may even want to give discounts to REGISTERED places of businesses that have boxes installed. This may deter unlawful entries. Pass-codes can be issued for entry with secondary fingerprint back up. Entries can be registered and logged. People privileged and entrusted with this information would be held more accountable and protect 4th Amendment Rights! Could the current system be enhanced with these types of measures to protect all parties?

Enforcement of this code and or law could save lives of physically and mentally disabled. Also housebound and those with severe medical history. I would think not having these safety measures (CODES) in place in the right circumstances to protect and serve those in need and those under section eight housing could be deemed negligence and neglect! Thus maybe rising the cost of section eight and or low income housing for the tax payer. It's a win- win if the Knox Box System can be enhanced to better protect all parties. Saves lives and money. However we need to strengthen the accountability and integrity of this safeguard.

as the patch turns

Like I said MAM your an idiot

I feel bad for MAM, never disagree with CC/Margaret, they will hunt you down and smoke you out of your house with their fire pits.

I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes, I can't stop laughing. Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

The posts on the Patch for the past 6 months are nothing but soap opera comedy. If anyone needs a good laugh it's a good place to go to read the comics lol

CC you want to know why there are no articles about the knox boxes working? It is because it is not sexy! Plain and simple. A metal box does not sell papers but fireman/police officer/ medic/ emt saving a little child does. You know what else sells papers? People who use a tool that can save lives for no good especially if they are in public service. That's why you see the articles that you do!

I am glad that you never had to have the fire dept/ ems/ police at your place of work and hopefully it says that way but when the one time you need them they won't be able to get in because you have shepards and a locked door! I can tell you that my dept would be going in but will cut a hole in the roof (if possible) and fill it with water as I will not jepardize my fellow FFers being attacked by dogs. Sure you have insurance but insurance cant replace information lost on computers, in file drawers or on a desk. If you ever had to regroup after a fire, the last you care about is the stupid check from the agent and him/her telling you that he's sorry!

@Rigatoni WOW! You just don't get it, do you? Are you really that dense? First of all, if there is a fire there will be damage anyway so why not just break the door. It won't cost the insurance company much more than what they will already be paying anyway. If the EMS is needed chances are that there is already someone there to open the door. As far as the police and a robbery... the lock box isn't going to prevent any robbery. Just like banning people from buying/carrying concealed weapons guns will prevent a shooting. Don't have a heart attack on that one Judy Thompson! The bad guy will always find a way. Having a lock box just makes it easier for the bad apple in each of those departments to do what they want. I guess you never heard of a pyromaniac fireman starting a fire just for the thrill of then fighting it.??? But above all that, it is our constitutional right to not have an unlawful search or seizure. OMG I hope you don't vote or breed.

@MFrench.... I do get it because I have been there, have you? Have you seen your office go up in flames? I have. Do you even know what it takes to force a steel door with a deadbolt? I do and have done it before. Do you know what a knox box looks like or how it works? I do and have used one. Do have any fire/ police/ ems training? I do. Did you know a fire doubles in size every minute when no suppression is occuring? Yes there will be damage in a fire but that key can mean the difference between a room and contents fire that the fire deptment could have put out with tank water to fully involved structure fire with mutliple mutual aide companies responding and your entire office destroyed. Big difference in how much damage has occured and if you can regroup. As for EMS is not possible for MR CC to be alone at his place of business and have a medical emergency? Maybe he is able to call 911 but not answer the locked door. There are several more instances where the knox box would be helpful but you have a closed mind and don't want to listen to people who have knowledge on the subject. You believe everyone out to do wrong rather than help their neighbor.

And by the way I do vote and No I don't have children but hopefully some day I will. And if I am blessed with children, I will teach to educate themselves on a particular topic and make educated remarks about that topic!

@ Rigatoni.. FYI I am former paramedic, had some fire training and haz mat training and was in security as my last job so yes, I have experience in all three fields. so now what do you say?

This is true about Margarets training. I also once seen her single handedly protect a unlocked open bank and guard the door til police arrived, all while jumping from flying hoses the were coming out of the bank as the would be robber stole a cleaning van with hoses coming out the back. True story. And don't forget about the oriental people who "like to play games late!" And Margaret has had training in high speed vehicle operations.

Frank-OMG I can never forget that bank incident. That was at 12:15 am. LOL And the Oriental guy we pulled over. He was soooo scared. Frank knows some of the stories since he lives real close to me. He is a fine gentleman that I met years ago. I can't begin to count how many lives I have saved around here Rigatoni. I can show you all documentation and awards I got if you meet me at Caste Village but I know it won't change your opinion of the lock boxes.

Hey, nice to see the Teabagger Tag Team back here at it again! Pistol packin' mamas with the Don't Tread On Me attitude, without a brain cell or a lick of compassionate empathy to share between them.

Gimme gimme gimme! More more more! I earned it all myself! Too bad for you!

MAM and Rigatoni, don't you love it when the "public" appreciates the public service that you sweat to provide? But if you were with these two at a come to jebus political rally they'd be the first ones to well up with tears over the Heroes of 9/11! They'd be out there waving their flags and holding forth about the holy heroic small business owners of Amurrica and their wonnerful fam'ly values and such!

Since they're so freaking self-sufficient and don't give a d--m about anybody but themselves and their own "hard earned money" just let their sacred private enterprise property burn to the ground! Let them pack up their wonderful businesses on their Harleys and carry their garbage across the border where they won't have to pay fair taxes, won't have to worry about public servants who try to adopt better emergency response systems to protect the vulnerable among us. Let them live their paranoid self-satisfied money-grubbing lives in some country where they'll be able to control everything within their sorry-azz fetishized constitutionally protected rights - or NOT!

The rest of us are glad you're out there working hard to better serve the greater public good! Selfish nitwits have no concept!

You tell them cc! I got news for nofire pitts. He/she better read what I wrote above. I busted my butt off for years saving lives around here. I can't count how many times I did CPR, saved someone smashed under a car etc. I AM one of those public servants that "sweat to provide". I might even of taken you or one of your loved ones to the hospital. I am proud of all that I accomplished, all the lives I saved, all the awards I got. Like cc said, you are a nitwit. Go hide in your house or under a rock (where I think you really came from) so that you don't smell the fire pits. I didn't put mine together yet but when I do I willl be smokin'!

First of I am a man but I do believe Baldwin has female FFers. Secondly I am not a volly FF here but I was a full-time FF in Columbus, OH until I was injured falling through a floor. I choose to resign and walk away from the profession after my injuries and become a CPA. I am not some wacker, pyro want a be FF. There are however many well trained vollies around here that are not pyros as you say. You might have read the articles surrounding PBF saving the 3 yr old the other day. Go ask the guys/gals from 8 engine/truck if a knox box would have been more efficient then an axe and sledgehammer that was needed to gain enterance into a 3 unit apartment building. These are professional FF and the busiest house in Pgh and it took them precious seconds to gain entry which could have been the difference between life and death for that little girl.

As for my comment about filling your place up with water... obviously that was sarcasm. sorry you did not get that. However, if I came to your place of work and noticed "guard" dogs I would not send my guys in. We have a saying "risk a lot to save a lot, risk little to save little". The risk of my fellow FFer getting mauled is greater than saving your property/business. I would have taken a defensive approach until the dogs were controlled by a handler.

I will not resort to name calling as you to have done. I am more educated than that. As for CCW, I have a permit and they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!

nofire pitts- read my reply on the other thread about fire pits. Maybe you should look in whether or not your VA plan covers mental helath.
Btw, as a paramedic we hated taking someone to the VA hospital. Unfortunately, we thought it was very poor care.

He should check it out somewehre.

cc-ROFLMAO about the big fire tonight in honor of nofire pitts! Send me some smoke signals. LOL

nofire pits is feeling lonely today i take it.

Yep, I bet he is.